Saturday 013109 14 miles with strides

• Ran from the house over to Monarch HS for the Solepepper Run.  Lucho was leading a group over there that was doing diagonal strides and 200s so I jumped into that to mix up the middle of the run and then ran home.  Pretty decent wind coming out of the west.  About six there and six back with 2 at the track. 1:47. It was fun to roll a bit, mix up some strides with the boys.  We flipped in some light core work in between (some planks, bicycles, dual leg hops, one leg squats)  Mixing in the faster work with then the six back home made it a bit of a challenge - but that was good.
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• Got home and started recovery right away with a breakfast smoothie ... banana, apple, yogurt, OJ, broch., blueberries, peach ... yum.
• January 09 in the books.  328 miles, 2577 minutes on the month.  I did some cross checking to see how this fared with last January.  In my head I was thinking that I'd better month than last year ... in fact, the months are pretty similar ... IN FACT - Last January was 347 miles and 2635 minutes.  I was throwing in some speed work, long runs and no surprise - lots of treadmill.  So ... what has changed?
• When I look at the old blog posts, I get a bit concerned that I am doing the same things and expecting a different result.  I can see the same approaches, principles ... there are some subtle differences this year though ...
• I have done a lot less hill climbing this year.  I am getting on the roads a bit more, building back some of that strength.  I am keeping the runs to singles ... I feel that I need to keep the game edged back a touch so that I am not "blowing" it all out just yet.  I go back and forth on this philosophy ... wondering if I should be pouring more miles into the bank right now ... at current, I think 70s in singles is fine.
• I am still dealing with the hernia issue to some degree but it is either less of an issue than it was last year (I first see reference to it on Jan 22 of last year) or I am just used to it.
• More to come ... I feel that I am on target of where I can be for setting up for a decent spring of road racing that will springboard into the summer mountain stuff.

Friday 113009 10 miles

Flatirons Vista.  In the mud, snow and beautiful weather.  10 miles.  71 minutes. ~1000 feet of elevation gain.  This was a run where I was not running hard ... just sort of floating, at a good clip, enjoying myself.  From a pace perspective, it probably was something above easy, but it felt very easy (although on other days, I guess it wouldn't).

Other aides

• So there are a couple of "other aides" that I have been contemplating use of.  For some, use of these things is a no-brainer and they consider them as much a part of their training gear as their shoes or their watch.  I question these things though because I wonder how much of a difference they will make, particularly when I consider them in light of their cost.    Now the cost thing is not always the best argument ... particularly when I have dropped bucks on things like a IPOD, sunglasses, and some fancy watches - all things I can easily justify as complimentary elements to my training.  I can't say my hesitation to use these things always is rationale or makes sense.  I just wonder about them.  I get into an internal conversation if these things make a difference.  "If I use that or do that will that increment my performance by .1%?  If I do ten of those things, do I see a 1 percent improvement?"  Anyway ...
• SKINS - these compression tights apparently help in recovery and several folks I respect swear by them.  I have tried them and I can't say that they have made my legs suddenly feel like they were when I was 18.  And they run about 80 bucks.  80 bucks seems steep to me for a pair of tights, as that is about twice the cost of a regular pair of tights.  I am leaning on the fence of getting a pair of these though ...
• Monavie - this is a juice of the acai berry, apparently one of the super foods that is even more potent than blueberries.  Apparently this stuff is super anti-oxidant rich too.  This stuff comes in a 750ml bottle - just like a wine bottle.  I got a sample bottle from a friend who distributes the stuff.  You are supposed to take 2-4 oz of this stuff a day, with meals.  Again, there are folks who swear that this stuff is manna from heaven.  I don't get that.  And at 35-40 bucks a bottle, I am not sure that I will.
• Vitamins.  Sort of like the juice ... but cheaper.  In the past I have taken Iron, C, B, Zinc and a multi (I am not taking any of these now).  Again, I don't feel like this suddenly super charges me or makes me stronger ... and I wonder if I should get these nutrients in a more basal form - LIKE FOOD.  In any case, I think I will go back on a vitamin regimen of some sorts come this spring.
• Yeah, I know ... I do silly stuff that seems to make sense to me to get a slight edge.  I try to sleep right.  I try to eat right.  I do an extra mile at the end of workouts sometime.  I am trying to do more core work.  I drive 100 miles to Pikes Peak to run 10 miles on it and then drive 100 miles back home.  I go and sleep at altitude.  Like I said, this is not necessarily logical argument as to what things I do "do" and which I don't.  But I am considering them.  And I like to think that I am willing to change my mind ...
• What aides do you use?  Which are ones you cannot live without?  Which are ones that you use but you wonder if they are beneficial?

Thursday 012909 11 miles

• My head was tired today, but my body felt good.  I did seven on my own (~ 7 min pace) easy and then came back to the office to join the group for another 4.  11 miles.  80 minutes.  I felt great in the body on the first seven and even had a few segments where I rolled under six minute pace.  On the group part, we headed west and a cold wind started pushing us in the face, and slow us way down.  I caught a bit of a chill from this that took me the better part of the afternoon to shake.   Steve M and I enjoyed the tail wind on the way back though and hit low six pace with ease.
• I had a weird dream last night.  I had a dream that I was running the Bolder Boulder 10k - but I was running it in corduroy pants, Croc shoes, long wool socks and a leather jacket.  It started easy, and I was with several folks (who, I don't remember) and we were walking.   Then we started jogging.  Then we were running but it was all easy.  I finished in 37:30 and was happy that I had given it was an easy effort and in such clothes. The dream continued that I woke up and realized that it was a dream and then blogged about it.  So I guess that makes it a dream embedded within a dream.  Hey ... it was a dream for crying out loud.

Fishy

Wednesday 012809 8 miles

Got outside today.  I need to force myself outside a bit more.  I have gotten a bit too comfortable on the mill as of late.  I have been leaning on its use as a tool a bit too much.  This started out as a convenience because of work, weather, or wind but I am heading that way a bit too often as of late.

This is a bit of a habit in my training behavior:  I tend to get into a rut of a particular action, and fail to identify it before it has an adverse effect.  I have said previously that I think a couple of years ago I got to hiding from speed work and running steep hills to a fault.  Given the choice of the track or Green Mountain, I'd always choose Green Mountain.

It is that exclusivity in my training I need to be careful about.  It is part of the reason why I blog this stuff - to help identify it.  Also, the guy who gave me the email kick in the ass,  asked me when I was going to HTFU and get off that thing - you know who you are and thank you.

This does not mean no treadmill.  It does mean that I probably could be a bit more dilligent in getting out when it is 15 degrees. 

I felt a bit stiff in the calves today from yesterdays shenanigans.   I actually see this as a good thing.  I did some work that made my muscles grumble a bit.  I think this was also a function of having also gone a bit hard on the mill the day before too.  So - today was an easy, self massage run day.  8 miles.  Hour.

Wednesday 012709 10 miles Get Nutty on the Mill

So I saw Justin's post on the mill and we started an off line conversation.  The mills at my office go up to 14 mph.  That is a 4:16 mile pace for those of you converting at home.  Or pretty damn fast.  My mill at home goes to 12mph or a five minute mile.  In any case, all these mills have way more than I can handle because they can all crank up to an incline of 15% or some 700 plus feet of gain in a mile.

Anyway, Justin clued me in that this runner we know had done 14mph on the mill for 3 minutes but then had to quit because it felt like he was going to be thrown off.  It suddenly dawned me that I had never even tried the mill at this speed, and I was wondering "why the hell not?"  I had no aspirations or false belief that I could hold a near three quarter mile of a run at that pace but I was going to see what the speed felt like for a half minute or so.

So - this whole run was about strides, and essentially goofing on on the treadmill.  Let's get that out there first.

Did a mile warm up and then a few strides for a minute or so at slower speeds (10mph, 11 mph, 12mph) and then began to get to business.  I did one at 13mph (4:36 mile) and that did not feel too bad.  It was taking about 10 seconds for the mill to ramp up from the 7:30's I was doing to the 12, 13 (I was starting the ramp up at 10 seconds before the count of 30).  I then upped the next one to 13.5 (4:26), but about 5 seconds in I said "screw this" and cranked it to 14.

At 14mph, a mill is pretty loud.  I had gone in this office gym of people from jogging to freaking sprinting and it was getting noticed.  The first 20 seconds were fine (after the ramp up - which was now taking closer to 15 seconds so I had to wait for that), but then I could feel that I was beginning to need to focus towards the end.  I did three more of these after plenty of rest (like 2 minutes each at 8:30 pace) and then did one more at 13.5.

All this brought me to about five miles in 33 minutes.  To switch it up, I cranked up the incline and decided I do a half dozen strides of 30 seconds at 15% grade.  I started with 10mph (6.0 min /mile).  MUCH HARDER.  I mean way way way harder.  I realize that might be a bit that I was gassed a touch from the prior strides but even so - these were harder.  I back the pace off on the subsequent ones to a much more manageable 8.x mph.  I kept the recoveries at 15% but at a really slow recovery pace of like 4 mph.  So - the next 1.5 miles were covered over 17 min (6.5 over 50+!).  I did six of these strides, brought the mill back to my typical .5 percent and finished the run out with a few strides in the 10-11 mph range.  Total run - 10 miles, 75 minutes. 

But fun.

Monday 012609 11 miles

• Good snow up here today.  Chickened out to the treadmill.  11 miles, 70 minutes. 1.25 mile warm up and then got into 7 x 4 minutes on, 2 minutes off.  The "on's" were 5:50 to 5:25 pace, with most of the work coming in the 5:40-45 range.  The off's were 7:45 to 8:00 pace.  Passed through eight miles in 50:30 at the tail of this.  Took a mile breather (57:40) and then did seven strides of 30 seconds each at 5 min pace or faster (each one .1 faster).  The strides were easy.  I did these on a 2 minute stretch, so 90 seconds of full rest. 
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• New blog added the side bar blog roll ... JW's Beer of the Week.

Sunday 012509 11 miles

• Long post today, going all over the place ... I apologize in advance - but hey, you get what you pay for..  To cut to the chase - 11 miles very easy, 85 minutes.  Pretty cold out, with a good deal of humidity - so you could feel it.
• Interested in the Central Governor theory?  Listen to an interview with its initial proponent then.
• Today was the Pinewood Derby.  Some shots ...
• The guys who build the track with the laser sensor finish line are pretty serious about the Derby.
• Scouts, attentive to the on-goings on the track.
• JZ with some props
• Overall JZ finished 10th in his division.  Given that he did 90 percent of the work on the car, including a chisel job that ripped into the area where the axles are housed, I was surprised he did that well.  Still, JZ was a bit tweaked.  He was upset in one of the runs, another car crashed into his on the finish "bounce back" - as he thought it damaged his car some.  We talked about the Derby and what it would take to succeed ... a focus on car weight, aerodynamics and the wheel integrity.  But we also talked about how that he could only control those things.  There was also an element of luck that he could not control (like crashes).  All said, it was probably better to focus on what you can control.  I wondered if I was talking about the Pinewood Derby anymore.
• The Derby is TIGHT.  Across four races, JZ was only a cum of .5 seconds out of first.  And that made him 10th!
• JZ with his car, award at the end of the day
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• I probably could write a lot about the Derby ...stuff about cars that done by people other than the kids ... but I really ought not too.  Breathe in nose, out mouth.
• Blog entries here are often about tweaking this thing in a workout, or wrapping my head around some aspect of running ... it all seems so trivial when you read something like this.  Such an event has to be every parent's nightmare.  My best wishes out to the family.
• New Zeal prescription lenses, a cool hat, an update on beard progress and a face of preparing for a run outdoors in 12 degrees.
  
• The trails 200 yards from home ... 
• I brought the camera in hopes that I'd see another Bald Eagle today.  Instead I saw alot of geese on the lake.
• Week in Review
• M - 10 miles, with 5 x 4 minutes, 70 min
• T - 10 miles, 77 minutes
• W - 11 miles, psuedo fartlek/tempo, 75 minutes
• Th - 10 miles, 80 minutes
• F - 3 miles, 25 minutes
• Sa - 15 miles, 102 min, progression run
• Su - 11 miles, 85 minutes
• 70 miles on the week, 264 miles on the month, 514 minutes on the week, 2110 minutes on the month.  A little less time this week as I did not run up high, an kept the miles equivalent.  No significant climbs and NO TREADMILL RUNS.  The training week was jacked on any given day with wind, race plans amuck, etc but I think I made a good January week of it on whole.  I am happy that I am keeping my easy runs super easy (T, Th, F, Su).  Monday was tough in the wind, Wednesday was messed up with the dog, and Saturday was supposed to be a race.  None of it turned out like I planned but it ... it worked out.  I ran well on those days but not crazy hard.  That is exactly what I want to be doing right now.  I have also kept the base mileage target (70) and singles - with the thought that greater mileage and doubles comes a bit later.
• Shayne Culpepper raced an indoor mile yesterday and posted a 4:44.  I need to get to work.
• The ladies were out skiing for the day (we'd be too, but there was the race!  The Derby!).  A strategically placed cam in the house reveals what sort of shenanigans occur when the boys are left to romp in the home.

Saturday 012409 15 miles

• I knew it was coming.  Somewhere in my brain, I knew that actually racing today was not going to happen I could smell it from a schedule perspective a few days ago, maybe even last week.  In fact at that time, I even put the idea out there that maybe it better if I did not do this race.  But today's race plans were not squashed until last night. 
• I'll admit, there was a part of me pretty disappointed since I had put some mental dressing on the whole race affair, including a strategy that was a bit out of the norm for me.  But, when I listened to my inner calmer what-I-like-to-call-my-adult-voice I was able to quickly put that disappointment to rest.  Part of me feels obliged to blog about that adult-versus-child conversation that happened in my head ... but I think I don't need to.  We have all been there:  a decision between something we want selfishly versus what we know we ought to do.  It is really a "no brainer" when I think about it, and it is certainly easier to work through these conversations in my head compared to say 15 years ago.
• Knowing I did not get to race however, did not mean I could not run.  The race timing was just poor for my family.  This is not new really ... I have a tough time with group runs on the weekend that start at 9AM (and in an unfortunate Boulder-ish tradition seem to actually then start closer to 9:15).  It is better to have it done and in the books by that time - not be starting at that time.
• 15 miles, 1:42.  I got out (730 AM, 20 degrees and pretty humid) not knowing what I really wanted to do.  I knew I wanted to do something other than an easy run but I was not sure if this would be a progression run, with something hard in the middle to make up for the lack race, or if I do some surges.  I had 12 in mind.  Once I got across 287, the miles settled in at just under 7 - pretty relaxed.  At two miles, I saw this huge bald eagle.  This is actually the second one I have seen this week.  For locals, it was sitting up in one of those cottonwood trees down in the Carolyn Holmberg open space, close to the lake.  This big bird was still there when I swung back 10 miles later.  I felt comfortable in my 6:50ish pace and decided I'd look to make this a 15 mile run, and gradually push the pace on the return - so a progression run.  I got out into the Louisville neighborhoods, took a pee in the park at Via Appia and South Boulder Road (7.5 miles, about 53 minutes) and started the run back.  I was feeling good and edge the pace up a touch.  I was suddenly at 6:05, 6:10 and it felt easy - but I thought I'd blow up so I backed it down a gear.  The run back was effortless, with the exception of the one hill climbing back out of the open space.  I kept the effort as near even as I could though and even that clicked under seven.  The 7.5 back was about 50 minutes back.  I know this run is nothing to get to worked up about - but I am pretty stoked at how simple it felt.  This sort of run would have wrecked me last year at this time.  I pushed a few segments of the last mile and they dropped into the 5:45 range.  Things get interesting there.  That "interesting" reflects my lack of top end speed, but that will come.  I am really stoked with how my base fitness is progressing.  There is still a lot of work to do, but it is in a good position comparatively speaking.  I could have kept this going today but just was pressed for time.
• 
• So I was feeling good about getting the run done and then I got a call from JV telling me about the race, and then I read Justin Report (I am pretty stoked for Justin.  His progress over the last couple of years has been fun to watch and I think he is really notching up some now), Simon E's report... and it stung a bit.  Just didn't work out today. 
• I had read something before the run today that seemed to resonate with me ... "turn into the skid."  When we drive and begin to skid in a car, we learn to turn into it.  This is for most counter intuitive when they first start learning how to drive a car.  We want to fight the skid.  It seems that life often throws us ice patches that make us skid that we want to fight that.  It is probably better just to turn into the skid and take it head on - and roll with what you have.  Call it making lemonade out of lemons, the best of what you got, a positive mental attitude - whatever.  I had a good run, did not race, and got other stuff done.
• Got in some myrtle work mid day.
• JZ and I hit the rec center in the afternoon.  I got in some time in the hottub.  Afterwards, we hit a pizza place I have been eyeballing here in town for a bit:  Original Pizza.  Without a doubt, as far as the pizza places I have encountered in Colorado, this most reminds me of the pizza place I worked in as a kid.  Back east, this sort of pizza place was everywhere it seemed.   Here, they are a rare bird.  I worked as a teen in a "Greek" pizza place, that seemed to have everything you could imagine on the menu.  Decent eats for a 'za.  I, of course, like my own still the best (I make the dough in the bread machine), but this beat Woody's by a mile.

Friday 012309 3 miles

• I had aspirations on the front end of the day to get in about an hour, or about 6-8 miles.  I wanted to go a little lighter today because I am planning on running the Fast and Flurious 4 miler tomorrow. 
• But it just did not work out that way.  Work spun up (which happens).  Not sweat.  I still had time for my run ... but then I ended up on a call unrelated to work that was ... numbing ("sorry sir, that is not allowed as per our policy." "who can I talk to about that policy?"  "Sir, I can't tell you that because that is not allowed by policy."  "Does that policy seem to be working out in this situation?"  "No sir."  "So shouldn't we try to come up with an approach that works, even if it is outside of the policy, particularly if it makes me the customer happy and it resolves this issue?" "Yes, sir."  "So what do you propose then?"  "Please hold sir." 
• Now the work day was over and I headed home thinking I could get in 5 or six in the evening but TZ was heading out for the night.  I snuck in 25 minutes (3+ miles) before I bolted back to the house to grab JZ - we needed to get over to the car "impounding" for the Pinewood Derby.
• All good - I got some in.  Life drives in some natural breaks for me more often than not.  Tomorrow's race ought to be interesting.  I am looking to test to see where I am at, keep the juices flowing, and connect with some of the team mates.  I don't have super high expectations - roll hard and compete.
• Yesterday when I ran, I think it was in the mid 60s.  Tonight was in the 20s.  No real wind tonight though.

Thursday 012209 10 miles

Ran easy today.  Started with an easy six solo through Westminster Hills (47 minutes), and then met with the group at the office.  This was the first meeting of these folks.  We did some loose introductions, and started an easy social run.  Groups naturally "clumped" from there.  We had about 10 folks.  I added on an easy four with this.   Nice warm temps still, but a good wind out of the west.  Temps are supposed to drop again tomorrow. 10 miles. 80 minutes.

Seeking Bob LaBreche

My high school cross country and track coach was a guy named Bob LaBreche.  "Coach" was, I think like all good high school coaches, a character.  Meaning he had lots of character, but at the same time he had quirks that we (teenage boys) cracked up about all the time - and so he was a character too.  I can still imitate his gruff voice.  I still have vivid recollections of conversations with him, some 20+ years later.  I imagine I will have these for life, as many men do of their coaches, regardless of sport.  I have tried to find where he has relocated via Google, Facebook, etc, but he seems to have disappeared - although back in CT, there is an annual half mile track race named after him.  I heard he retired about 10 years ago or so (maybe 15 now?) and moved to Arizona.  Anyway, if anyone knows where he is at, I'd love a conversation with him.

Wednesday 012109 11 miles

• Got out with intentions of a 4 mile tempo run.  The wind was pushing out of the west, and so after a mile warm up (7:04) heading east, I began the fight up wind and west.  6:18 for mile one was okay.  I then got into the Westminster Hills dog park and started the climb.  And then I got mugged.  A dog charged into me.  It was not big deal - as I did not get hurt (and the owner was all apologetic, but I just wanted to get going again), but 30 seconds I could tell my pace was all jacked.  I kept trying to settle and just roll with it but I could tell it had mucked the workout some.  6:56.  I was a bit tweaked now but I figured I just relax and keep on running.  If that was easy, okay ... if it was hard, okay ... if it was fartlek, sigh, okay.  7:01, 6:59.  I started to get my groove back a bit and my legs came back a bit more so I began to get back into the tempo groove.  6:24, 6:21. 6:16.  Hardly stellar but a solid run.  Cooled down with a 3 mile warm down 7:35, 7:38, 7:03.  11 miles, 75:35, with ~800+ feet of climbing.
• I debated whether to let this workout go when it went south with the dog crash.  But I did not want to.  I don't want to have all my workouts become this thing that require perfection in the environment every time.  Stuff happens.  I can't control that ... I need to control how I react to it.
• This site looks to have good interviews (podcasts) with Daniels, Noakes and many others.

Training commentary on Pikes

• This is going on in the comment thread, but I wanted to bring it to the front of the blog ... note, all of these guys seem to know how to suffer ... refer to the pictures.  Or maybe that means they don't know how to treat themselves?  ;)
  
  I LOVE THIS CONVERSATION!   If I get more stuff buried in the comments, I will bring it to front here ...
  
• My summary ... everyone training for a marathon as difficult and as varied as Pikes needs to consider how they want to attack it.  In nearly all cases, everyone needs to consider how long they will train, how much up they will do, how much speed they will do, how much altitude work they will get in and how much descent work they will get in.  Frankly - I need all of it.  Someone else may need more of one element over another.
  
• From Lucho ... G- My thoughts on training for Pikes (which I'm sure we'll discuss much more in depth) is t o avoid running steady climbs too often, I'll focus more on 'shocking' my legs with undulations. Anytime you do a very long climb (or any one type of movement) your muscles fatigue and they start to shut down. By providing a variety of terrain you more effectively stimulate the muscles. Even with the very long single climb at Pikes I believe that by training this way I will be stronger. My main focus- as I have told you- will be the descent. My experience at Ironman tells me that this is the most common weakness and is an aspect of fitness often over looked. When you start to die on a climb you lose less time (by percentage) than you do when you die on a descent.. the speeds are much different! The difference between walking on a climb and running is only ~30" per mile? But on a descent it could be 2'-3' per mile.. Just my own personal theory born of the Ironman. We'll see!
• My response:  Tim - great comment! Thanks.
  First, I have come to similar conclusions regarding overall training - but these conclusions are not applicable for everyone!
  In a nutshell, I suggest a mix of training that includes climbing, road running, speed, long running, downhill running and altitude. What that mix is for a person depends on their strengths, weaknesses, history, and what progresses their training the most.
  After the 06 Ascent, I could not believe how much I had to walk in that race! As a result, I shifted my training to be more climb oriented. Lots of those climbs were done with a mantra, "DO NOT WALK." I got a lot stronger on climbs but all those gut busting "runs" at 15 minutes a mile made me SLOWER. When it came time to run sub sixes, it was a much bigger challenge. And with that as my top end, my ability to run 8s at 10000 feet were also challenged.
  Now - there are some that get huge benefits from near exclusive climbing. It is hard to argue with the success of Scott Elliott - he has won the Ascent EIGHT times. People look at his training, which has included doing Bear Peak 100 times over 100 days and shake their heads. He has stayed at Barr Camp for a month leading up to the race and just run the upper portion of the Ascent every day in that lead up.
  Part of the reason why I love this race is that it creates a different dynamic to the marathon. There are hill climbs, flatter sections, altitude, downhills, heat, cold, distance, trails with people, road ... we all need to find ways to work on our weaknesses and exploit our strengths to the greatest degree!
  All that said (so much for the nutshell) - I agree that you can lose more time from a percentage perspective on the down versus the up. The difference between walking and running can be as little as 1 second a mile - I have passed people who were running while I was walking. But it can also be HUGE. I have seen folks go from a very quick run to a walk that looks like a saunter. In other words - when someone needs to walk in a race - damn it, it is still a race!
  There is a cross over point where walking is more effective than running. For most of us, this is somewhere between 3 and 4 miles and hour. At this cross over, walking becomes very hard at the higher speed, and running is actually wasting more energy at the lower speed. Being able to shift back and forth on the climb is a good habit for most to get.
  Justin - I am curious on your take on Lucho's take - given you had a great down, particularly when compared to your up - last year.
  My mix of training will be a combination of distance, hills, speed, altitude, and downhill running ...
  All this to say ... I will do runs that are longer climbs (runs up Sunshine Canyon ... Flagstaff Road ... the Decalibron ... Grays and Torres). That development is necessary for me to be as prepared as I can physically AND mentally.
  Sorry - long reply, and a lot out of context of your comment. Will you do the Barr Trail race?
• Justin's response:

  Tim, GZ, I disagree with what you've said on the Pikes training. I assume we're strictly talking marathon here.
  I think the climb is the way to go. You're going to be climbing for 2/3 of the race and only going down for 1/3 and there are bigger time gains to be had out of running a strong climb vs. a fast down.
  I trained last year almost exclusively for the climb because I felt like I could run a great downhill already. Dave ran the down in 1:23, Matt in 1:25, me in 1:28 and I feel like I could've been around 1:25 without the stops. That's what I'm looking for this year. Whenever I'd run a mountainous trail in training, I'd take the descent super easy. Running hard downhill is usually what would cause prolonged soreness for me and by slacking on the descent, I could hit the mountains on back to back days.
  Here's why I think the climb is key though - the guy that finished ahead of me last year put at least 5 minutes on me in the last 3 miles up. Assuming most people up front in the race can run 6:30s or so down on the marathon course, it's not realistic to think that I could make 5 minutes up on anyone going down. If they're running 6:30s, I'd have to run 5:00s to make up that time over the same distance and no one is going to do that. The difference between running up and walking up may be very slight as you both said, but the difference between running well up and running poorly up (or walking) can be easily be 2 minutes/mile (i.e., the last 3 miles up for me, the only point up where I started mixing in walking).
  Another example, I was with Bryan D at Barr Camp, halfway up the mountain. He ran the descent 1 minute faster than me, but finished some 10 minutes ahead. He made about 9 minutes up on me from Barr Camp to the summit. I like to think I can run the descent 2-3 minutes faster, but when the descent only takes up 1/3 of the total time in the race, it doesn't mean that much if you're already 10 minutes behind at the halfway point. No matter how fast you are down, you're just not going to make that time up. It's the same scenario between Dave and Matt. The race between those two is over at the halfway point.
  Train hard for the descent and you can take a few minutes off your time. Train hard for the climb and you can take 10+ minutes off your time.

• My response: Great points Justin! FWIW - your descent is markedly better than your ascent. I think it shows a need to a.) continue to get better on the climbs and b.) possible an improvement at altitude (given the concern in the last three miles).
  I think if a person blows up on the descent however, they can increase their descent time A LOT. Again, there is no single answer here but an example is Matt's 92 Marathon - a 2:05 Ascent, but a 1:38 down. From what I have read, that is because MC blew through the aide stations low, pushed through to the top and then blew up on the down (of course in MC fashion, he came back next year and ran 75 down after a 2:01 ascent!)
  The way you prepare could be very different than how Scott Elliott prepares than how Lucho prepares than how I prepare. Generally, I see five components:
  1.) Distance (this is a marathon but it is going to take even the best at least 3.5 hours - the average finish is over six hours with the Ascent in 4.3 hours).
  2.) Up - the damn thing goes up 7800 feet.
  3.) Speed - it is a race. There are flatter sections (5% grade). If you want to run this thing fast, rather than just finish it, you got to train fast.
  4.) Altitude - things are different above Barr Camp. Things get really different above the A frame and treeline
  5.) Down. You have to come back down 7800 feet.
  Does Justin need to prepare a ton for the down? Probably not. In fact, comparatively - you and I are probably equally matched on the up (at least last year) but you kill me on the down (and so I need more work there). 
• Matt Copeland:  It's hard to beat Justin's reasoning, but you're right about each his own. Either way, one has to diversify.
• Lucho: Maybe I'm not seeing how hard the climb is? What the hell do I know!!!? I've never run it. I think both comments will be something I dwell on. I think it will come down to finding where my strengths are (maybe the uphill from years of cycling?) and working on my weakness. Thanks a to n for the comments!!
• Brett ... TL - 13% average grade I think over 13.3 miles. It is  relentless. A calf killer, not quad killer. Even fast people take 3 hours. Think 3 solid hours of up
• Justin ... 

  Reread my comment, just so I don't sound like too much of a  wus, I want to clarify - it was only in the last mile up that I mixed walking in! Thankfully Scott was on the summit yelling at me to run, so it was only a few brief weak moments.
  Lucho, as for how hard the climb is, it's not hard to "run" the whole way up. You could grind it out easily enough. But to really run well up, that's what hard. I always thought I could  run hills as well as anyone, but you just don't really realize how good some of those guys are at climbing until you race them. A lot of people joke about being passed by little old men in their first mountain races, but it's true. Another way to look at how hard it may be, just think about how high your HR has been on the hills running around your house - the climb up is like that for 2:45.

• Me: 

  More stuff to ponder ...
  To the newbie, it is often said that the Ascent will take at least your flatland marathon time, and in many cases it will take that plus 50%! 
  I think the flatland time is a fair guess. Justin - you ran 2:41 at Colfax last year? And 2:46 on the Ascent? Pretty close.
  But ... if you are a good climber, there is no doubt you can run the Ascent faster than your flatland marathon time. Again, looking at the top of the spectrum, Matt ran a 2:01 Ascent (in route to a round trip win / record)(with the last three miles being in 34!) but has a best flatland marathon of 2:18 (which might be a bit slow considering he ran a 65 half if I remember correctly). Scott E ran a 2:06 Ascent - pretty certain that would not be the marathon time he ran!
  Now those are two guys who focused on climbing alot! They also got to know the course crazy well, but that is probably a different story.
  Tim ... that means, you could expect a 2:30 climb given your marathon PR. That is a total shot in the dark though. Last year I saw a 2:20 guy come back to me above treeline (he was not a climber, and the weather was a bit of an issue). But it could also mean, that if you could climb, you might be able to pop something much quicker!
  More details on the climb ... it is never crazy (say 20%) steep, but it does get (for short sections) up to 15%. It averages 11.5% on whole, for a 7800 foot plus gain over 13+ miles. If you can get on the course, you will learn a lot. The Barr Trail race is a great way to get recon for the lower half. A separate trip for the upper half is a really good idea if you can swing it but ... it is a bit ridiculous to drive 200 miles RT to run 10.
  Descent ... yes, it is a function of fitness ... but ... it also a function of how crazy you can push yourself on the down. Matt's pace calculator gives a lot of variance on what to expect for a down. See:http://skyrunner.com/pace.htm

  Last night I listened to the Jack Daniels interview - here: http://www.athleticscoaching.ca/UserFiles/Media/Audio%20Files/TCACC%20Interview%20Collection%2008/Jack%20Daniels%20Interview.mp3
  He repeated a variety of times that he believed ultimately a huge key to success was the athlete's happiness. For example - If you happen to be happy at altitude, then altitude will work for you. If you are not, then it probably won't.
  This seems so evident but it is something we conflict on all the time. We, all as psuedo scientists, are looking for the best training to achieve the maximal results in the least amount of time and effort. There are certainly some base principles that are applicable for all of us, but when it gets to the details of how to most effectively stress an athlete - the details vary from athlete to athlete. Some benefit from uphill running, some altitude, some more distance, some core work, etc.
  This is not only a function of the uniqueness of our physiology but also the even greater unique elements in our BRAIN. You have to have belief in the training, and how you are g etting there. And it has to be rewarding or enjoyable.
  In regards to this topic on Pikes, I think of my buddy Jeff Valliere. I am convinced that Jeff could break 2:30 on the Ascent if he did speed work. I am convinced of this because of how I see Jeff ease up steep grades at velocities that leave me gasping. I have said if Pikes were half as long and twice as steep - he'd be its champ.
  Jeff balks at the speed work. He'd rather go play on 14ers or 13ers or some other peak with his wife and his dog. That is what he enjoys. Running in circles on a track, or even doing hill repeats seems absolutely unrewarding to him. I can't fault him - in fact he probably has a better vision of what this ought to be than most of us who focus on this as a competition. That is probably a conversation for an other day.
  The point: while not all roads lead to Rome, there are many that do. We each need to find the one that works for us

Tuesday 012009 10 miles

• Again, I find myself referencing another great Matt Fitzgerald post.   I might just need to copy the whole dang thing here.  A snippet: “The idea is to become more and more authentic, which involves you fully engaging the question of why you should step forward.  The more you do that, the more authentic you become, because you’ve gone through this process of wrestling with your own values and thought processes to make a decision.”
• Solid post on finishing runs with hills by Lucho.
• Great post by Crowther on diets.
• So last week I started to try to drum up a training group at my office.  I sent out a note on the company bulletin board seeing if anyone wanted to get together for group runs.  I was not looking for a training partner for myself - as much as getting folks together that could train towards Bolder Boulder 10k.  The goal is to get people to train together and maybe meet some new folks; allow me to see how other folks train towards these goals; and to further promote running.  I got about 20 people interested and about half of those folks are in the range of wanting break an hour.  I scheduled up a group run for a half an hour on Thursday.  We'll see what we get for turn out!
• I often work from my office's cafeteria.  My co-workers have joked I have made this my office.  I catch up on work, talk with folks as they come through for coffee or breakfast, etc.  Today, that office was shared easily with well over a hundred people, crammed in to watch the inauguration of our new president.  The sea of people in the room, and on the screen was .. awesome.  Transcript of the speech ...
• Some people have wondered how I "get all over the net."  I think I hardly do, but for the most part - I use RSS feeds to subscribe to blogs.  This allows news, feeds, articles, etc to be fed to me when they are published.  If I am interested, after reading the headline, I dig into the feed more.  I have no less than 300 feeds at current.  On any given day, I might read 10 of those in depth - most get circular filed.... today I added the Whitehouse blog.
• I felt motivated for a hill run (based on Lucho's post) so did an easy one, exploring up over Simms and then down into Flatirons Crossing.  10 miles, 77 minutes.  It felt hill but there were only 780 feet of gain in the run.  There might be a "Linden" esqe hill in the middle of this though.  The weather was good, but there were still decent winds in the late afternoon coming out of the west.
• 

Monday 011909 10 miles

• Back down from the mountains.  I was hoping for some good weather when we got back into town, but as we sailed into the flats, I could see the winds blowing.  Whatever.  I just need to get over this wind thing.
• Warmed up, a bit w/Lucy and the Frisbee, and tried to shake the car ride from my legs.  It was warm (60s) but windy.  Continued to warm up after I dropped Lucy off - until 20 minutes.  Then did 5 x 4 minutes on, 2 minutes off.  It was hard to judge pace - effort in the wind, but I am guessing it was half marathon-10k pace effort.  I did three heading up north into the wind and two more back down.
• Recovered about a mile or so and then finished it off with six thirty second strides at 5k, building to mile pace with full recovery time in between.  10 miles, 70 minutes.
• It felt good to get a timed workout going outdoors, rather than doing it exclusively on the mill.  The effort was not a killer, but it is clear that I am not completely used to this stuff yet.
• I checked my resting HR this AM up in the mountains.  It was 52 the first minute I checked it, and 48 the last.  So we will cal that 50.  I think (although I need to recheck tomorrow AM) that is about six beats higher than down here at home.

Sunday 011809

• AM - early, under the light of a half moon in Fairplay.  A billion stars.  Easy jogging, four miles.  Skied hard all day, and got dehydrated ... I started to get a headache because of this combined with the altitude.  TZ and I had a blast on the slopes though.
• 
• 
• 
• PM.  I debated about getting out but the dogs were begging so I slapped on the headlamp and trudged out into the dark and cold.  The stars were amazing.  The dogs, which became four specks of light (eyeballs) seemed to enjoy it as well.   4 miles, 40 minutes.
• I wonder if the slow runs at altitude are worth anything.  Then I wonder if I could hold ten minute pace for the six miles above Barr Camp.  I'd be pretty dang stoked if I could!  Must be worth something.
• Week in review ...
  • M - 8 miles, treadmill, progression (48:30)
  • T - 11 miles, (77 minutes)
  • W - 10 miles, (75 minutes), 8x hill sprints
  • Th - 10 miles, treadmill, fartlek (63 minutes)
  • Fr - Bear (+), 8 miles, 1:50
  • Sa - 15 miles (1:52)
  • Su - 4 miles (44 minutes)
• 70 miles.  569 minutes on the week.  194 miles on the month.  1596 minutes on the month.  Good news is that the general velocity of all my runs has improved ... I was really surprised at how easy the Saturday effort felt.   Weather (snow, cold, wind), life (hitting the high country every weekend for example - today I could have got at least 10 in the flats with the weather but I skied with the fam instead), and how much training I want to do right now is actually holding me back a bit.  I feel like I am actually to a point where I could go and start ripping stuff and really get into it ... but I want to hold back on that for just a bit, make this level I am doing now be ... simple.  I got in some core but I need to do more.  I do need to double up the strides that I do.  I am in no rush to sneak off to the track.

Saturday 011709 15 miles

Not sure if / how much I will get to run over the next day or two so opted for my longer run today.  Met up with Tim, Bob and did a few miles (4) before heading back to Solepepper Sports for the group run.  Did 1 with Bob and JK1 before heading out for 10.  We were running really easy but suddenly on the climb out of Superior to the west, I was out there, just clicking relaxed sevens and change.  I did not mean to separate and thought the guys would roll me up (as they are all total bad asses). When I got to 12 I decided it was time to be done and nudged it a bit so the last three were under seven.  I felt great.  This has been probably my easiest long run in a while - meaning that it was simple on my body, my head ... 15 miles, 1:50.

Pikes Entry Info for 2009 posted

http://www.pikespeakmarathon.org/entry.htm