Friday diversion

Work safe ... made me laugh

Thursday 010809 11 miles

Various

• Cool video of Rickey Gates' travel to Europe for the mountain racing circuit this summer.
• Eat less, exercise more?

I had some slight soreness in the quads today which is rather unusual.  No big deal, but I wonder if it is from three straight days on the treadmill?

In any case, I was really glad to get out today and away from the rat machine.  I headed over to the Flatirons Vista trailhead (close to the office) and rolled on the new trail of the same name, as well as Springbrook trail.  I started at a thought of keeping it easy but just found myself loving it, and rolled ... never really pushing but not holding back either.  The trails there are really nice.  Good rollers, nothing crazy steep.  11 miles, 81 minutes, as slow as 10 min/mile pace on some of the climbs with the mud and ice, and as fast as 5:30 on some of the drops, about 1000 feet of elevation.  I can easily get a 15-20 miler out of this run ... and will look to do that.

 

I am picking up a couple of bad habits this week ...

• I have been backing off my core work
• I have been making more of my runs all sort of "middle" way runs.  Meaning my easy runs are not too easy and my hard runs are not too hard.  I am not overly concerned with this in this part of the season but this can be a bad habit if I don't control it.
• I am not hydrating appropriately.

Just need to work on those.

How windy was it?

010709 Wednesday 10 miles

Various ...

• The winds continue to blow today.  Jeffco has gusts up to 58mph with a steady wind at 20mph.  It gusted so high that the dirt on the Marshall Mesa whipped up to start to block out the views of the mountains.  No joke.  I was on the third floor of my building (a four story building) and I can feel the building moving.  Seriously.  On the fourth floor - the blinds were moving on the windows because the windows were bowing to the wind.  Co worker Verne posted some pix.
• I am debating whether I should have responded to this post.  MAF ... (by the way, I know that Lucho and I have posted quite a bit on MAF on the past.  FWIW - I think he and I agree more on MAF in terms of running training.  Certainly he is more versed in IM and its applicability there given I have never done one of those).
• THIS is a really bad day.  I am glad that did not happen to me skiing.
• More fun on talent versus work at the SOS.  If they post stuff like this everyday, I will just let the blogroll on the right speak to it.  Their stuff, Fitzgerald's and CV's are some of the best blogs of folks regarding training approaches I know (that don't also serve as "this is what I did for training"). 
• Fitzgerald's post on weight and willpower ... interesting as lots of folks seem to be thinking about weight these days (particularly in light of the dark days of winter.
• I used to run the Certain Death trail all the time ... (if you live in Boulder County and run, you know this trail ... it was also described in Running with the Buffaloes as an Adam Goucher 22 mile run) then it got shut down.  It looks like it might get opened up again! 
• Stupid IPOD question:  my work laptop has had its motherboard replaced a couple of times.  Each time that counts as a registered computer with my IPOD.  I can't get access to those old boards and deregister them with Apple.  Is there an alternative way that I can deregister a computer that is associated with my IPOD/Itunes? (later note skatona suggests - http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/store/authorization/ - thank you.  Do I know you?)
• Interview with Eric Blake, mountain runner from the US team last year.

Due to the crazy winds ... I hit the treadmill again.  This is the third day on the mill and it is getting to me a bit.  After five miles, I went to 4 x 3 minutes at 5K pace, and then ran sub six for the remaining 9 minutes or so to get to the finish.  I was not really up for this physically ... I probably should have taken an other easy day but I my desire to get this run done over rode that.  6:56, 6:48, 6:56, 6:41, 6:49, 6:20, 5:46, 6:04, 6:08, 5:51.  64 minutes.  I am ready to get back outside ... even if that means running in gale force winds.

010609 Tuesday 10 miles

10 miles, treadmill.  Easy.  67 minutes.  Dave Bryan came in towards the end and counted my stride rate at 176.  I had to take quick nature breaks after 3 miles and 5 miles.  The jalapeno bagel got its revenge.

Interesting post by Matt Fitzgerald today on "training to train."

More on the Mathew Effect.  Screw it.  I was born in September.

010509 Monday 10 miles

Various ...

• If anyone is interested in running up Bear Peak alot ... like a hundred times in the first three months of the year ... let me know.  There is a guy (not me) that I want to hook you up with.
• Back to work today ... in some regards, this is a good thing.  It brings me into a routine that I am a bit more familiar with and that I can better control.  I often say I am going to work to relax ... and there is a truth to that.
• I feel pretty good post the run yesterday.  The miles did not beat me up.
• I am not sure that I am going to be able to get into the Lafayette Oatmeal Fest 5K this weekend.  It is a bit of a shame but Girl Scout activities might take priority.  Seriously.
• JV is nuts.
• I fully expect JM to take it to the next level this year.
• I have mixed feelings on Matt F's latest post.  I agree with the premise of being more organized, more efficient with time.  I disagree with cutting sleep to do it (occasionally, maybe ... long term it is just not worth it).
• I hate the premise of this study.

Treadmill today (38 mph wind gusts), so that mixed bag of nuts.  I have wondered if I am more efficient on the treadmill because I don't have a high knee lift.  In other words ... since I don't lift my leg very high does it make easier for me to float over that belt?

In any case, I wanted a bit of a turn over workout today and after a 2 mile warm up, did 20 x 1 minute on / off striders near 5K pace.  I upped the pace every four rep (starting at 5:30 pace, 10.8 mph and ending at 11.3mph or 5:18).  About a 1.5 mile warm down.

The treadmills at work are ROCK solid.  I love them.  But they are programmed to start a warm down at 60 minutes.  So once I get to 60 minutes the mill wants to slow the pace to like a 12:30 mile.  If I am on top of it, I can catch it right at the minute and push it back up to whatever pace I want.

Today's splits ... 6:56, 6:47, 6:18, 6:12, 6:11, 6:09, 6:10, 6:02, 6:40, 6:40.  10 miles, 64 minutes.  Good workout.  I did not really feel yesterday's long run as a detriment (given its pace).  A minute is a real short period of time and while I had a bit of a patch on 10-14, I just got through them and then was pretty stoked to roll into the last five.

Sunday 010409 17 miles and more altitude conversation

Didn't feel real hot - my stomach has been fighting some sort of something.  Decided to go long and real slow, real easy.   17 miles, looping up into Lafayette, Louisville, keep the HR in the low 150s.

Matt asked: "After reading the altitude post, I'm a little puzzled.  The point of training at altitude is to increase O2 carrying capacity and perhaps condition oneself if he is going to race at a similar alt?
And how high does one have to go to get the O2 benefits?

My nickel on this ... sleeping at altitude helps you increase O2 carrying capacity because your RBC count will increase.  But even with this increase RBC count, it does not offset the lack of the ability to get 02 to the muscle cells.  For an extreme example, even if you acclimate at 20000 feet for climbing Everest - you don't suddenly reach your sea level potential.  

Hence, the old adage, live high and train low.  I do think an exception to this is if you are racing high.  There the law of specificity over rules - train your system (body) unto which you will race. 

But even there, I think there is an exception.  If you train exclusively at altitude, you will lose speed that you train (better) at lower altitudes that you can use to your benefit in a race at higher altitudes.  In other words, if you want to run fast, you need to run fast.  Since you are limited in being able to do that by training at altitude, you set a governor of sorts if you always train at altitude.  This can be overcome (running downhill for example, at faster paces) with training lower as a key option.

Exactly where (elevations) this all takes place is probably a matter of some debate / scientific analysis.

Lucho - you got a take on this?

Week in review

M - 4 miles (37 min)
T - 0 miles
W - 13 miles (92 min)
Th - 7 miles (So Bo, Bear, 120 minutes), 5 miles (40 min)
Fr - 13 miles treadmill (87 min) with 6 x 3 minutes
Sa-  7 miles (54 min), 3 miles (10-15% grade - treadmill, 39 minutes)
Su - 17 miles (140 minutes)

Week - 70 miles, 609 minutes
January - 52 miles, 480 minutes

Decent week.  It began to come unraveled from a training perspective with the skiing on the front end, and then towards the end with the pups being born and my stomach aching ...  I got in a good run on Wed, good climbing on Th (but slow), some repeats on Friday ... and a good slow long run on Sunday.   I'd love it all to be faster - but who wouldn't?!  I definitely want to start getting more of a decent long run in more often  ... I tend to eschew that too much.  I am considering having one or two of days in my training that are REALLY light (not goose eggs but like 4-6 miles) so I can really tag it the next day.

The last 18 hours

Birthday party along with a golden snitch cake.

Puppies ... !

Doubler Survey

The following survey was posted up on the PP Message Board.  I am posting my response here as well as there.

Everyone's body feels different things,but got a few questions for those super studet's or stud doubler's out there.
   1. How much effort percentage did you give on first day race compared to 2nd. day race?

I started the Ascent with wanting to race conservatively but the conditions made it tough.  Once I got to Barr Camp, I kept mentally playing a game of "run to ...".  In other words, run to the B-pit, run to the A frame ... and then once I got there it was a survival fest due to the conditions.  In other words, I was running almost as a point of necessity to keep the body warm.   All said, I put more into the Ascent than I thought I would or could.  In other words, I ran 100 percent on the day of the Ascent.  I am not sure how anyone could NOT given the conditions ... they forced the issue.  Under different conditions, I might have been able to hold back some.

Really the lesson I learned on the Ascent was this - don't think too much about getting to the top post Barr Camp.  Execute carefully to Barr Camp, and then focus on the next task, the next milestone at hand to get to.  This is not much different than doing intervals.  When you do intervals, when you get about 2/3's through if you think about getting to the last one you are probably overwhelmed.  But if you think about just getting through the next one ... suddenly you start knocking them down.

Day 2 - I was waxed on the day of the ascent in the Marathon.  Simply the effort of the day before left me worked.  Additionally, mentally, I had a tough time wrapping my head around what I was going to do.  It was very fresh in my mind as to the entirety of the event and I let that get in my way some.  I still gave 100 percent the second day but it was hardly the same level of performance!

   2. After  1st. day race ,what did you "do" or "take in" to recover for the next day race?

Laid in bed, ate, drank water, took a nap, when to the awards assembly, hung out with my family, and enjoyed the craziness of what I just did.

In retrospect, I should have, if I was more serious about physically recovery, not gone to the awards assembly, etc - but that is not what this double was about for me.  I wanted to bask in the glow of people who had taken on the mountain that day.  It was good for my heart, but probably impacted my recovery some.

   3.How did you feel on starting line 2nd. day race(marathon)and as marathon race progressed?

Scared.  I saw what the mountain had done the day before, and now I was going up it again one day later, and coming back down.  The marathon alone is scary when you think about it.  Doing it under those conditions is even more nuts.  It would have been better if I almost was brain dead to the facts.

But I was also determined.  I was going to complete my Double journey, assuming the weather let us ... as the race progressed, I knew I was in bad bad shape but I was determined to complete this set of work.

In some regards, however, I felt better in the marathon than I had the year before where I went into cramping, etc on the down trip.  Perhaps my prep for the double or the slower ascent on the second day made it that I was not running as much on damaged goods on the decent.

   4. What form of prep or training did you complete before the big 2 days of racing?

9-12 hours a week of training, lots of hills (about 10000 feet a week).  Hardly enough really.  If I could I would up this to 14 hours a week, with back to back days and more long runs of 3-4 hours.

  5. Most stupid question of them all-How did your body feel after race or the next couple days following your finish?

I actually felt really good.  I was able to jog by the middle of the week.  I suggest MOVEMENT post the races.  Not as in running, but keep moving so that you don't tighten up ... (one person in this thread indicated a problem with sitting in a car for 8 hours ... OUCH).  Recovery is aided by eating well, drinking well, some light self massage ...

Really, if I had to, I could have gone back up the mountain again for a third day.  It probably would not be a PR by any stretch of the imagination, but it would have been very possible.

6. What was your age,and what was your body comments to you after both race's?

38 on race day. 

7. How long to recover after both race's or were you spent for a while the next several months?

Recovery ... tough ... I was ready to run again a few days later.  Was I ready to rock again a few days later?  Probably not.  Part of the thing for me though was I was coming into the Double on a short lead up because of injury.  I started training again in May so I did not have the classic nine month lead up (as suggested in the PPM/A training book).  That meant I was less prepared than I should have been but had less miles in my legs overall  (and so I think I was less in need of a break?).

Generally, I'd suggest for MOST that a lay off period of as long as your body and head call for.  It could be up to 2 - 3 months.  Listen to your legs, your head, your heart ... it will tell you.

010309 Saturday 10 miles (7, 3)

AM - 7 miles.  53 minutes.  First three with Lucy really easy, throwing her the disc.  Had a good deal of stomach trouble going on and had to take a bio break when I dropped her off.

PM - I had intended to get out in the afternoon for a handful or so of additional miles but KZ's b-day party took priority.  I thought I'd get out after that but - our Norfolk Terrier kept us up most of the evening - she had puppies.  I was able to sneak in 3 on the treadmill at 10-15 percent grade (35 min)

010209 Friday 13 miles

Did not get to my run until late afternoon, and while the weather in the area was stellar earlier in the day- the winds had picked up again as the sun was setting.  I wanted to get in some sort of effort but did not feel real zippy.  I hit the mill.  13 miles, 87 minutes.  After a four mile warm up, I did 6 x 3 minutes on, 2 minutes off with the ons at 11.1, 11.2 (x 3), 11.3, 11.3 (so 5:24 -5:18 or about 5k pace) and the offs at 7.5 (8 min / mile).  At 3 minutes each, I was covering a little less than a kilo with each of these ..., as I did not feel great, and I wanted to focus on the turn over, I did these at zero percent grade.  In some ways this was easy ... but I was just not on my game.  This brought me to about an hour and so I had a decent warm down.  The actual time of this run was longer than 87 minutes as I took bio breaks after the warm up, and the interval set and got called in the middle of the warm down to make a bread.

Various

Holy crap JV. 340 peaks?  Damn.

I am not a triathlete ... but I have been reading more and more of their blogs because a.) they are interesting and b.) these folk are truly endurance phenoms.  On a side note, look at the crap Simon Whitfield has to go through for being in a known location for drug testing.

Playing with sportracks from a suggestion from RunColo.  A pic of this AM's run as displayed by that software.  Definitely seems to be a lot smarter on the elevation smoothing.

Pix from this AM.  Justin found these glasses on the top and was going to try them on.

 

Looking south from SoBo - that is Pikes in the distance.

Looking south from Bear.

010109 Thursday SoBo and Bear (and later 5 mi, 12 mi on day)

Met Justin this AM for a jaunt up South Boulder Peak and Bear.

I had a good dataset for the run up South Boulder Peak and then Bear and by down via Shadow - but my daughter starting messing with the Garmin when I got home and the dataset I now have includes the ride home.  Whatever.  I am a bit tweaked about this but whatever.  I will get a better read on it some other time.

I was dealing with stomach issues on the way up, probably from the Mexican food and champagne from last night - and this slowed me down a lot.  Justin was kind to me on the up, but I was a bit embarrassed to be so weak.  The canyon was not crazy icy but I was definitely glad I had screw shoes.

In any case, 7.4 miles, 2 hours with Justin.  It is nearly exactly two miles up to Shadow Canyon going from approximately 5600 feet to 6600 feet.  30 minutes to negotiate Shadow Canyon to the saddle,(so we got there in about 52 minutes), nine more to the summit (8600 feet elevation, 3.4 miles, 3000 feet of climbing)  The run back down to the saddle up to Bear is about 300 feet of climbing (saddle is at about 8200 feet) and .6 of a mile over (8400 feet, 3300 feet of climb and about exactly four miles).

It seemed icier on the way down and I was really appreciating the screw shoes.

Pix a bit later.

Did 5+ in the evening really easy.

123108 Wednesday 13 miles & an altitude conversation

I woke up with a splitter of a head ache.  That and KZ asked me - "what happened to your face?"  I looked like I had been stung by a bee or something - I was all swollen.  It subsided as the morning went on but I felt like crud.

Last night we escaped from Fairplay - by necessity.  JZ started barfing, and complaining of a headache.  We suspected that he was a bit dehydrated and hence dealing with some altitude sickness (Fairplay is at 10K+).  Since we had planned on heading down today anyway, we took the cue to eject early.  He slept well last night and was fine this AM.

Even though I felt like crud, I knew I wanted a run.  Today's effort was just what I needed to clear my head.  The winds out of the west buffeted me around a bit but my legs felt great.  I too was dehydrated a bit from two days on the slopes at high elevation but it was a good easy run.  13 miles, 92 minutes.

I have decided to name the front end of today's run the Tracy loop (after my wife) (about a 5 mile loop that I have been doing regularly) and the out and back I do down on the Lac Amora trail the KZ Out and Back after my daughter.

Month stats ... 291 miles, 2337 minutes.

Being having this conversation over on Endurance Corner re: altitude ...

I have had the benefit of living this past week at Colorado altitude. I mean real altitude - 10000 +, versus mid altitude of Boulder (or in my case Broomfield).
While running today (and not breaking 8 min / miles), I was wondering if an athlete born at this elevation and who regularly trained at this elevation would hold significant advantage over those born at Denver-esque altitudes. My guess is not. (and so this is the boring, repetitive part of the question / post). It seems to me that benefit gained of training at 10000 feet is counter balanced (maybe even negated) by the ability to crack into true speed at lower elevations.
In other words, I'd probably be very pressed to break 40 minutes for a 10k up here. However it seems that the best way to realize that would be to train at a lower elevation to break (say) 35 for a 10k race.
Is the best way to realize performance at higher elevations (say at 10000 ft or higher) to maximize ability at lower elevations or to spend more time at higher elevations training (but at a lower velocity)?

Responses  ...

From Gordo Byrn

George,
Just my opinion, others can quote the science!
I think that you'd be best served by a mixture of altitudes to optimize your 10K at 10K. 10K is pretty extreme for an endurance athlete -- I don't think many elite runners live much higher than 7K (but I could be wrong). I've always felt that 8500 ft was about the limit -- I could get solid desaturation but also adapt to the point where I could move at a decent speed. At high altitude you can use downhill grades to assist so that you can maintain leg turnover at moderate HR -- however, if you are training to hold 4 min Ks at 10K then leg speed wouldn't be a limiter.

From Justin Daer

I've lived at 9500 ft for extensive periods of time (up to year) and I don't believe that you really get to the point where such a high elevation feels "normal." I do, however, believe that training at such high elevations helps you understand what that particular elevation will do to you.
If I was training for a high 10K (like "10K at 10K" for ex) I would train lower (say Boulder to 8000) on a regular basis and incorporate very high runs (10K) 1-2x/week (if possible). I would't train extensively up (very) high.

To which I responded:

So ... some loose thoughts around this:
1.) in order for one to be effective at higher altitudes, they actually probably benefit from higher intensity training at lower altitudes
2.) training extensively at higher elevations can have a negative effect - ie, you can actually become slower because of the limits of training at that elevation
It seems that this is obvious when talking about training at 10K feet. Folks who train for high alt races don't train there exclusively - they get lower and work on speed (V02 max) and then translate that in to a better performance on race at higher elevations.
I find that to be in contrast, however to what is the general perception about altitude up to 8k. Maybe it is different at these mid altitudes but folks come to altitude to train here to have a better performance at lower elevation. This is almost a complete contrast to what I think is being said above - no?

From Alan Couzens

George,
It's a case of horses for courses.
What you get at altitude:
- Increased Hb
- Increased hematocrit,
(i.e. increase O2 carrying capacity)
What you 'give up' at altitude
- Peripheral adaptations in higher threshold fibers (if you go too high, peripheral adaptations in all fibers).
(i.e. decreased O2 uptake)
Getting the appropriate balance is a function of how you mix the two. If you get it right, you spend just long enough at altitude to get as much O2 in the blood as possible but not so long that you de-train the higher threshold fibers to any great degree, then you come back down and start using those fibers again, but you do it more oxidatively/aerobically with your new supercharged O2 blood. Of course, this too detrains and so you need to go back up again. For this reason, very regular altitude camps are a staple of elite athletes looking for that extra edge. For most of us, we still have 'upside' to increasing peripheral adaptation through good old fashioned volume and don't need to resort to those 'tricks' (just yet :-)
Best,
AC

No more unlimited rides up Pikes

Gazette article ...

The economy today

Making the rounds on the interwebs ... (click on to make viewable)

Tuesday 123008

More skiing today ... no running.  I thought about it when we got home but enjoyed kicking back with the family. 

Interesting post on aging and performance by Dave Dunham.

Post of the day by Justin on the RW Trujilo article.

Grays and Torres in the distance.

Heading to the mountain

Hot chocolate at Vista Haus.

Monday 122908 4 miles

A few notes ...

1.) Happy birthday today to my wonderful 11 year old daughter KZ!

2.) I do need to get out a few of the Jay Johnson Running DVD's. I thought I'd get them out before the Christmas holiday - I just let that task get away from me. Matt, Sunny, Lucho, James/Beth, Phil - yers are coming. JV, Kerrie - let me know what you think of yours. I just started watching the volume 2 DVD (and other than being reminded that I need to get back to vol 1!) I am again impressed.
3.) I re-read all of my January entries from '08. That is why I keep this blog (in part) but I don't do a review of what I did as often as I like. In reviewing it, I am forced to ask myself what am I really changing? Core? Diet? Volume? Speed? ... one of the best entries is with advice from Galen. This is clear ... January is where things begun to become unravelled with my hernia issue. If I don't have that as an interuption, then by definition, my training is changing. But other than that - should I expect markedly different results with the same approach to my training?
4.) Got in four miles at the end of the day (37 min) ... dark. Windy. Cold. Tired from skiing. While skiing today, I was in a lift line and I slipped backwards. My legs separated farther and farther and farther back until I was almost in a full split. JZ asked me ... "why are you doing that Dad?" It looked like I was doing some funky stretch, which I was but not on purpose. I thought my legs were going to just rip off. Ouch. I managed to eventually get out of it.
5.) An interview with Mountain running legend John Wyatt

Sunday 122808 8 miles (plus some snow shoeing)

Snowshoe walk with family in the afternoon

Got in some (15 minutes) core work.

Evening ... we got all set up for skiing for tomorrow so I ran back from town via the Beaver Ridge Road. For what it is worth, it is 3 miles from downtown to the entrance pull off to the NF. There is a fair amount of climbing in this run for a road run.

Week in review
M - 10 miles (77 min)
T - Bear (6 miles) (75 min)
W - 11 miles, trails (100 min)
Th - 10 miles, ended with 8 x 20 second hill strides (69 min)
Fr - 10 miles, @ alt (112 min)
Sa - 5 miles with 6 hill strides (30 sec), @ alt (42 min)
Su - 7 miles (66 min)

week - 59 miles, 541 minutes
month - 274 miles, 2209 minutes

Good basic week ... feel a bit in transition with the holidays, in between races and goals, the weather ... all fine. This week was nearly all easy running for me with some strides for fun. 50-70 seems pretty easy for me to get ... the mileage was a touch low this week but the minutes where they were supposed to be. Will look to begin the bump up next month to 80s and change regularly. This next week will be a bit of a down week as well ... with expected skiing tomorrow and Tuesday. Ought to get back into the swing of a normal schedule around Wednesday or so.

Rut? Or consistency?

I decided to check some posts from last year ...

... Training plans and thoughts ...

... 122507-122807 ... 

So I am either dialed in to make the same mistakes I made last year, or I clearly know what I need to do to acheive success.  Or I could just be looking for this secret.

Arguably, the wheels came off last year with injury.  And I beleive that my approach this year, that includes regular core work, ought to help prevent that.  But when I look at what I believe I need to do, what I knew last year is essentially the same now.

Run.  Run alot.  Run hills.  Run roads.  Run slow.  Run fast.  Run long.  Run at altitude.

Live it.  Love it.  Observe.  Learn.  Don't hide in success but push yourself to failure.  Repeat.  Enjoy the journey.