Anyone know if Tim Parr did the R2R2R?
Today was a GORGEOUS day. It felt like one of those perfect cross country days. A slight but not stinging bite to the air, shadows growing long in the early afternoon. I am sure the weather had a bearing on how I felt because I was moving effortless today. Again, after an 8 to start I naturally fell into an easy pace of 7:30 to 7:40 – just clipping along. 12 miles.
Great comments in yesterday’s post re: ultra training, specifically tilted towards hundreds. My reading list now includes this.
A subtle but important announcement for the BASIC was posted on the BTR list today:
Is this time of the year again, a time to go back to the basics. I like to do a run on October 31 starting at 9:00am and invite everybody to join me in celebration of the fall. See map for directions. After the run we’ll have a potluck party. Bring something to through in the grill or a dish and some beverage. Everybody is invited, runners, family, friends. Since it’s Halloween, costumes are highly encouraged!
See you. The Basic usually goes over the top of four peaks but typically with some drop in the middle (so you do have to go back up about 2500 feet again).
Barefoot running gone out of control
Thanks for posting that link back to the previous ultra discussion. Good stuff.
ReplyDeleteI've done 50 mile runs twice now in just over 10 hours. To some people thats pitifully slow. But I'll remind folks I've only averaged 23-25 mpw over the last 3 years. And the one I did this year in 10:14:00 was when the heat index was over 80F range for 9 of those hours.
If you are patient and take ample walking breaks, pace yourself, and fuel appropriately, I strongly believe anybody can do long ultras. The only real decision point is how fast do you want to go to be satisfied.
Also, make note of what folks like Matt Mahoney and Eric Robinson say...
ReplyDeleteParr was spotted off the highway down in Farmington, NM with his thumb out. Taking a bit longer to get home this trip.
ReplyDeleteMy bet is on JV to defend the title for the Basic! Wish I could be there for it too.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you reading up on 100 mile race training? :)
ReplyDeleteLucho - He's hoping you'll ask him to be one of your pacers for Pb...
ReplyDeletePacing is certainly a consideration I have but the least likely on the agenda. I expect I am either running Pikes or Pb. Pacing would be option 3.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think I have read enough about 5ks and 10ks. For now.
I won't be using a pacer anyway :)
ReplyDeleteInteresting. Why not?
ReplyDeleteWhat is a pacer for? Maybe I don't understand the pacer thing...
ReplyDeleteGood question.
ReplyDeleteI think it is implied that having someone to mule fuel, help talk you through tough spots when you are 50 miles (and beyond) deep has a lot of value (beyond safety).
Hmmmm. I'll bite my fingers on my response to that. Since I've never run 100 miles, what the hell do I know.
ReplyDeleteI still don't want a pacer though. Maybe after my first 50 miler I'll change my mind.
I lost at least a half hour (and the race for first) at Bighorn this year because I totally missed a turn about a half mile from the 50-mile turnaround (where I could have picked up a pacer). With a pacer I surely would have made that turn and, maybe (unlikely), stayed in the hunt for the win. I also had to slow significantly through the night because my light set-up was insufficient. With a pacer that would have been less of an issue.
ReplyDeleteThose two things are probably less important at Leadville, where the course is pretty straightforward and lighting for faster runners is less of an issue.
Pacing at Leadville this year (last 25 miles), I muled a bit, which might have helped, but my runner was in such bad shape that I'm not sure I helped him get across the line any faster - not that he cared once his 'race' was shot.
I think there are probably downsides to pacers too.
Hey Nick,
ReplyDeleteI got lost with my pacer at Wasatch 2 years ago.
I tend toward the camp of no pacer, although I have to preface that statement with the fact I used them at both of the 100s I have run, Wasatch and Leadville (DNF).
I feel that for myself it is just something else to worry about. Will my pacer show up, is he too fast or too slow, is he struggling, etc. You have enough to worry about on race day with the fact 100 miles is just plain hard. A quality crew is a necessity though.
Lucho, 50 miles and 100 miles are so completely different. Be sure to keep an open mind to game plan changes at Leadville. No matter how well laid out your plans are, they are more than likely going to change.
I think pacers are a purely personal thing - do you want someone to help you, or do you want to do it all by yourself.
ReplyDelete'Help' can consist of many things, as listed above.
I think originally weren't pacers 'invented' for safety's sake when you have runners spread out all over the mountains and woods in the middle of nowhere?
Now obviously they have advanced far beyond that...
You all missed the key pacer responsibility:
ReplyDeleteVideo tape you puking on the side of the road and posting it to YouTube shortly thereafter.
I'd like to hear you (fingers unbitten) on this Lucho. If anything, I love how you challenge assumptions. I just assumed (I ought to know by now) that you and anyone else would have a pacer for such a race.
ReplyDeleteI guess I looked at it like this. If I were going to go out for a 50 mile run, I'd ring up my buddies and want to see who would join. As we all know, I know it helps the miles click by.
I imagine this help is further complimented on a 100 mile run, at 10000 feet, in the dark.
That said - I know a guy I work with who did Leadville a few years back and finished in 29 hours. He tells a story of wanting to fire his crew 2/3 through. They basically gave up and told him that he looked bad and should quit. He in turn told them to go play a game of go screw yourselves and finished.
So for as many reasons why I hear people enjoying pacers, and strong crews, I guess they could be a bit of a nightmare as well.
And - since it has been debated a little bit here before (via Kilian's support) - it is a supported race and pacers are allowed. No silver stars for doing the race without a pacer. Except in the blogosphere perhaps.
Good one Brandon (and good luck on Sunday).
GZ- Have you ever known me to bite my fingers (tongue)!? What's happening to me?
ReplyDeleteThanks Team Gangels, solid advice.
I don't think I have the knowledge of the race to form a credible opinion. I might be racing a 50 miler in 5 weeks and should have a little more perspective afterward. I know it's a different race than a 100, but I should be able to see at 50 miles if I WANT a pacer. I might be crying for help afterward just to get back to the car! I would like to be able to do the race with out a pacer because I think we learn the most about ourselves when we are only with ourselves. I want (need) Leadville to be brutally difficult and push me to limits I've never been able to find. Ironman became simple after 15 of them and I left to find my limits with a fast marathon (boring!). I want hours and hours and hours of suffering with an incredible internal struggle to quit... just to see if I won't. I don't need help with that.
Have you ever read any Victor Frankel (seriously)?
ReplyDeleteSince I have been following your ultra discussion for a few days I figure I will finally comment.
ReplyDeleteHaving done 100's both with and without a pacer/crew. The biggest plus of a crew is that they help with logistics since you don't have worry about what to put in which drop bags. They can also save you a few minutes at each aid station which doesn't sound like much but over 10+ aid stations that time adds up.
I don't think pacers are necessary (Nick - you just need a better light). They do serve as a distraction which I actually think can be bad. I did Bear without one (no crew either) and found I was more focused on the present tasks (keeping a good pace, eating, drinking). Geoff R also didn't have a crew/pacer and he was still 2 hours in front of me...so they clearly are not necessary. At Leadville I don't think I ate and drank enough towards the end partly because I was distracted by talking to my pacer.
By the way, you should do Leadville - it is "fun"
The other morning I went for a run, it was 42 degrees. I was trying to decide whether I wanted some gloves or not. Finally, my wife just said, "take them, you can always take them off." Not sure if this approach/philosophy can be taken with a pacer due to the commitment. My gloves didn't seem to care either way.
ReplyDeleteI'm 4-0 at hundreds with a pacer, 0-2 without 'em. So obviously I'm all for pacers.
ReplyDeleteIf I were to do a hundred, I think I would gladly expect to have pacers. Nothing against or for those who don't have them. I'd just be happy to be enjoying such a fun experience with a friend.
ReplyDelete