Love the call out for equal rights here (18 sec in):
Tuesday, July 26, 2011
Tuesday night various
Apparently Leadville is pre-selling IVs for the 100. Gut tells me I am aligned with Craig on this one. I did run myself into needing an IV in my first PPM (it took me about an hour to figure that out because I could not get my BP straight). I don't think I have taken one since, although I have been offered it. Last year I just asked for a cot and a chair. I could lie on my back on the cot and put my feet up on the chair. I did this for about 20 minutes and it helped a great deal.
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Wow, agreed with Craig and the comments.
ReplyDeleteBummer, I hope there's not a profit motive and cultural shift towards expecting/suggesting planned IVs (other than emergencies). I (like many of your similar friends) do this as a fun hobby and enjoy training smartly -- don't need more fodder for non-runners to call this stuff "crazy."
Perhaps they could sell prepaid finishes, "get your 24:59 finish. Impress that coworker with your big buckle."
ReplyDeleteBefore anyone posts with his sandy panties all in a bunch, that comment was tongue in cheek. Still, the concept of prepaid IV makes me like where ultrarunning is heading just a little less. Greed will ruin the sport. Leadville is a circus.
ReplyDeleteI generally agree with you Tim. Increasingly I see the draw to not doing organized races but the fat ass type events ...
ReplyDeleteI am sure there is a profit motive there ... I have no idea what an IV bag costs, but a 1L bag of saline water can't really run 75 bucks to create and administer.
Weird. Looks like picking Leadville as my first organized 100 miler will give me the 'full' organized race experience. Looks like I may go back to just doing unorganized long distance trail runs in the future...and skip the circus. Can't guarantee that though. ...hmmm, I wonder if I could get IV stations set up in the Grand Canyon... that was a joke but actually I'd be kind of surprised if they don't have access to that stuff at Phantom Ranch for all the flailing tourist hikers. Maybe I'll secure a prepaid IV at Phantom Ranch for my next long run in there. Ha
ReplyDeleteI'm waiting for the dialysis machines before I try it.
ReplyDeleteTim: prepaid finishes. lol
I mean, even if you're not running stuff at the LT100 level, one of the things I like about running is precisely the lack of external support: no machines, no equipment, just me, my shoes (almost typed "hoes") and some water.
And some spikes. And my GPS. And my backpack with my favorite blankie.
But seriously: self-reliance as much as possible. It's low-tech and self-driven.
I'd rather that than a $400 entry like States...
ReplyDeleteI heard about the IV thing a few days ago...just seems absurd to me. You shouldn't need an IV at the finish if you do it right. Like you, I think just laying down for a bit seems to often do the trick.
ReplyDeleteBased on my experience at Leadville maybe they should also include an option to buy yourself a post-race meal and beverage - they didn't have much of either when I finished so they may as well add that for some more $$...
Ha Nick! That's right, when Lucho and I finished there was nothing at the finish. While Lucho was lying half dead on a cot, I was looking around for ANYTHING to eat. I finally just gave up and wandered away. I'm just doing leadville to check it off my list, then nit have to bother with it anymore, boring course anyway.
ReplyDeleteThat said, bear 100 has zero at the finish too (nick p nearly froze to death there!). At least it's a kick ass race though, so I'm willing to forego a few other things there, like a buffet at the finish and not getting my buckle for two months.
Capitalism country-style. That does seem odd. Having never done a 100, I'm still leaning toward the unorganized adventure runs where I plan accordingly to have plenty of solid IPA and cold cuts waiting in my cooler next to my chair and tent. Paying a lot of money to run in the dark and get lost and hope I didn't waste my money on that IV bag therefore push on so I need it, just seems not for me.
ReplyDeleteAnyone need a pacer for 2012, hit me up!
I don't really see what people are complaining about. Leadville is a for profit race that's only purpose is to make money. I do find the IV bag a little strange, but if some tool is willing to pay a $100 so be it. I agree with Tim, plenty of 100s exist that are awesome low key affairs (hence my love of Wasatch). It seems like if you have an issue with a race, just don't run it.
ReplyDeleteDamn, $75 for a saline drip? If you know someone who works in a hospital you can get them for free. Hashers use them for hangovers. And you do not need to be a medically trained professional to administer one. One of the stations for the EIB testing was giving an IV, and Infantry guys aren't always med school quality peeps.
ReplyDeleteHere's a better idea for you Leadville runners who obviously have lots of moolah laying around: pay me $50 and I'll have a cold beer waiting for you at the finish.
Whoever approved the sale of IVs after Leadville made a really bad decision. This is one of those classic "WTF were they thinking" moments. It sends a horrible message. I agree with Craig that if you run a smart race you shouldn't need an IV (though stuff does happen). It's incredible to me that Leadville is allowing people to pre-order. This was a horrendous decision and I'm ashamed of the Leadville organizers.
ReplyDeleteI am a bit divided on the topic. I agree that the race is a for profit event and they can do whatever they want (legally) to increase profits. In fact, I sort of appreciate the nature of what they are trying to do: separate themselves out by offering differing services. All too often I think races just hang out their shingle, offer little in return to the racer other than a t-shirt, a medal, an aide station or two, and a set of results. For some races at some costs - that is fine. 100 bucks for the PPA seems good to me. 70 bucks for Bolder Boulder seems ridiculous. But folks line up so I guess something is working there.
ReplyDeleteSo I appreciate Leadville's effort.
But ...
... I struggle with all the safety nets we put in so many parts of our lives. I see a theme that I am still trying to figure out so that I can articulate it better but, generally, I think we fear failure of ourselves, of our loved ones, and heck even people (and industries) we don't know. We love to save folks.
I think that is very much a wrong message. Failure is important, because WITHOUT IT THERE IS NO SUCCESS. We learn more from failure than we do success. Buying an IV drip bag is not the end of civilization, but it is yet another way that we can pad the event, to get folks to think how easy it is so they can check off "did a 100" on their list. I guess it is their trip and all and that is okay, but I think they are missing something.
I think most of us look to some of these events to see what we can do with what we got. There have been posts in several places about being self supported because that takes it to the next level. Buying an IV seems to go in a direction opposite that, but I realize the lines I am drawing are arbitrary.
I am sure I have just have given myself the whammy for needing multiple IVs at Pikes and being the victim of appropriate ridicule and sarcasm.
First, no shame for taking an IV at Pikes. You strike me as someone who is pretty tough and wouldn't take if if it was not seen as medically necessary.
ReplyDeleteI think one of the differences here is that they are basically selling something to help with recovery AFTER the race. It would be different if it was something like being able to get an IV for 10-15 minutes at Winfield to stock up before the second half. In this case you have to finish first and then you are basically just getting something to help with your recovery. In some sense, is it really that much different than paying $60-70 after a race to get a massage for recovery?
While it sounds like I am defending it, I do think it is bad that it is being offered. Like you say, the line is a little arbitrary...there are lots of things that some people choose to spend money on to aid in recovery (drinks, compression, ice baths, massage, etc.) and it is really just a question of where you want to draw the line of what is acceptable/unacceptable practice. For what it is worth, I think that IVs are now banned from the TdF, so that at least sets some standard of what may be acceptable. Although, if we are going to go by TdF standards I hope everyone preparing for Leadville has a fridge full of blood right now ;)
Great discussion above.
ReplyDeleteCoincidentally, I'm listening to Boukreev's "The Climb" (free audio on netlibrary.com), and found this quote relevant (or I'm shamelessly misusing it, depending on your POV):
"The price of climbing Everest is now being calculated in a different way. More and more people are willing to pay a cash price for the opportunity, but not a physical
price for preparedness: the gradual development of body and spirit." -- Anatoli Boukreev
Good quote Mike.
ReplyDeleteNobody jumping at the Deacon Jones quote though!