Summer is over folks. Yup.
Hamstrings are sore from squats. Yup. And I am actually a bit sore in the core from the longer planks I did.
Catching up on a bunch of reads – here are a couple that I enjoyed that are a bit more off the beaten path: a good dictionary start to running lingo, what you should know about Hokas, 10 by a mile finishing in 4:51 at 7k feet, good stuff from Greg Crowther on the big three of training (from yesterday’s commentary), Morton’s latest report, and between Jeff and Chris you get all the trail candy porn you want. Of course the conversation on UROY has picked up a bit now. I found Timmy O’s comment that KJ is the GOAT runner to be a very reflective of what his world is. Perhaps the greatest mountain runner of all time. Of course, I go back and forth in engaging in these conversations and then thinking they are just a colossal waste of time as they are based on subjective criteria – the exact opposite of a race.
UROY Krar, GOAT Zatopek or Geb.
Today’s listening (tip of hat to DQ)
I am sorry but this might be the best race report ever. Or at least the most effective.
The head was ready to go today, but the body was not up for it. I debated heading out at all actually, but I decided to see where I was at after 2 miles. After 2 miles I headed home. The temptation to just gut it out anyway was strong, but the cold temps probably made it a bit of an easier decision not to push it today. Rather than slog for 90 minutes, I just let it go.
Pretty popular Ted video. Just caught it. Good stuff. Has me thinking about how the mind impacts running (again):
I don't think KJ would even want to be considered for that list. He does something different.
ReplyDeleteGeb for GOAT (runner), hands down
Krar for UROY
keep in mind that Zatopek won the 5k, 10k and marathon in ONE Olympics. That is an insane level of domination. He also held the 5k, 10k records (and a host of other off records like the 20k, 25k, 30k). First guy to ever go sub 29 as well.
ReplyDeleteVery compelling argument. Geb's dominance for so long (including recent success), over multiple events, against such high level competition (I just don't think it's possible to win the 5, 10, and marathon in one Oly today) just sets him apart IMO.
DeleteKenenisa Bekele is a 2:03:XX marathon away from inserting himself in the GOAT discussion in a serious way. Something to watch for in the coming years.
ReplyDeleteA couple other names: El-G, Viren.
For ultras, it's Kouros.
See - we don't even talk about sprinters. It is like it is a different sport. Nobody says Carl Lewis when we have these conversations. I mean that is still running, but the 100 to 800 to the 10k to the marathon to the ultra are pretty different things. Then toss in the mountain thing ...
DeleteDouble double gold puts those guys in the conversation in a heartbeat.
Interesting insights, GZ. It's a great question: Are, for example, Kilian's skills and talents more rare than, say, Usain Bolt's or Halle's?
DeleteI don't think so.
DeleteI think KJ is a hard working talented athlete with other unique attributes but I don't think he is any more rare than other elites. In fact, he might be even more common place.
Bolt or Geb gets big big bucks for winning a Diamond League meet or the Berlin Marathon or whatever. What did KJ get for winning WS or setting the Matterhorn record? Nada.
Clearly he is the best at what he does really well right now - he has FKTs that might as well be considered WRs. But as the financial incentives have not been there to get broader populations to attack those WRs, it is hard to say if what he does (or what any highly successful ultra runner does) is as unique as a 2:03 marathon. I would opine that it is actually not as unique.
Agree. I think it's harder to do what Bolt does in the 100 and 200 or what a 2:03 marathoner does than to run sub-24 at Hardrock or win UTMB. I realize that's gonna get some people pissed off.
Delete@ GZ - I agree that with the lack of money MUT running does not have the ability to attract large numbers, however I would say that right now we don't know how rare KJ is. Perhaps even with money and lots of participation he would still be dominating the mountain scene. Hard to say/tell.
DeleteI'm pretty sure they're going to nominate me for uroy....I got my name published as one of Colorado's Fastest Runners in Colorado Runner for my stellar SR performance. Or Grand Master performance....whatever.
ReplyDeleteI nominate you Jill!
DeleteI wouldn't put Kilian as the GOAT. He's the best 100+ mile mountain guy now, for sure. But even at WS I don't think Kilian can beat Timmy. Anyway, pound for pound, I think Ann Trason could be the greatest of all time. She excelled at all distances and on all terrains. Certainly Yiannis is the GOAT for road and track ultras, but in his prime he went to Western States and had a lackluster performance by his own standards. The more one looks into Ann's career, the more they may find that she was unusual and rare (in good ways). Ellie Greenwood seems to have a similar skill set but many of Ann's records (and Yiannis' records) will stand for generations.
ReplyDeleteWyatt
This sort of smells like a conversation that is going on in TF right now. Who would win a race between Farrah in Bolt at 600 meters? They are both big time at their respective distances - but we are compelled to see who is better between them. Bolt is never going to run sub 30 for the 10k, and Farrah is not going to go sub 22 in the 200. So who is the better between them?
DeleteIs KJ better than Brownlee? Brownlee ran a 28 10k on the track last year and that guy is a triathlete. But Brownlee probably would not have a shot at KJ in a vertical kilometer (but now as I type that I would like to handicap it up as a race).
Agree. Until it's an international thing, it's dumb.
ReplyDelete@ Footfeathers - UROY is screwed up but I'm not sure what you mean when you say it is "gay." Is it uniquely happy? Or is it attracted to rankings of the same gender?
ReplyDeleteAs a long time member of the World Futurist Society, I don't live in the past, yet respect it as a reference; I'm using "gay" in an often used sense of odd, dumb, outdated, sterile. You'll see it defined that way soon enough in popular vocabulary jockey volumes.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the mention, as I do put effort into the photos. But I don't look anything like Ron Jeremy.
ReplyDelete-- "Jeff"
That drawing also looks a bit like the Boulder 100.
Except in the Boulder 100 (in 2 weeks) you'd only go 2/3 around the lake and then back.
Delete