Excellent read on Wetmore. And the men’s team this year. As long as I am plugging LR articles, their week in review is solid this go around. Some dude held a plank for four something hours.
Well, a kink was thrown in the summer plans today. Apparently Leadville is going to go to a lottery. I guess it could be determined that I am not going to do Leadville. As I sit here now, that would be a bummer, but it ain’t a big deal.
There is definitely some back and forth on the internet how Lifetime is doing a money grab here. Sure, they probably are in part. That is part of business. I find it a bit interesting that some of the folks who are pissed about this are also likely to defend a free market economy and capitalism. Obviously if there is a demand for Leadville, it can charge pretty much what it wants and look to surcharge you along the way. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to buy it and you can go do any of the other 100 milers out there that are probably cheaper, as epic, and have that small time feel you loved.
These lottery changes are not going to get large droves of folks to walk away from Leadville. Translation: they have a product that is in demand. If it was a product that folks didn’t want they’d probably be cheaper, not need to worry about a lottery, you could walk up and do race day reg (think Boulder 100 – which is a fine event but it is not appealing to many given it is a run around the res 14 something times).
What is really nutty about this is this: we can do all this shit for free of any of the race reg folks. It is not like Lifetime is selling iphones and you can only get the iphone there. You can go run that 100 whenever you want. Yes, I get it is not the same as toeing the line with everyone. I get that – the spirit of the race is indeed important. But think about that, they are charging you something for something you could do without them.
I asked Brownie for a recommendation as to where to get a beer. He sent me to the Cloak Room. Probably the darkest bar I have ever walked into. All a sneeze from the TX capitol.
Couldn’t get it rolling this AM, a slow and easy 10 miles. Pretty hot towards the end of it. Saw the FD fishing a dude out of the river. He was unconscious at the least.
Seems like the $15 lottery fee goes to two decent charities.
ReplyDeleteGood stuff GZ. To further the FB discussion:
ReplyDelete" I find it a bit interesting that some of the folks who are pissed about this are also likely to defend a free market economy and capitalism. Obviously if there is a demand for Leadville, it can charge pretty much what it wants and look to surcharge you along the way."
By using public resources, events must be consistent with being 'in the public interest.' A race that charged excessive fees would arguably not be in the public interest, either by limiting accessibility to the wealthy (if it did fill up), or by preventing other events and uses if it didn't. So it is certainly a regulated -- not a free -- market.
And even given a free market, it is generally healthy to discuss dissatisfaction with currently offered products and services. And when those products and services are based on entrenched, special considerations that make it difficult to have new, open competition (e.g. the NFL, health care), the degree of regulation and openness of the market itself generally comes into play, in addition to the quality of the product itself. IMHO!
Well it's still worth a shot at the LT lottery, AND you'd have a great chance at one of the qual races, if that's your thing...for all it's warts of late, it's still an historic race.
ReplyDeleteThe LT/Pikes combo, though, seemed like it had interest from several folks, but was really a stunted shadow of Ulrich's past challenge, which required a uniquely high degree of performance in the LT race, instead of stumbling through both a week apart, IMHO.
So if LT doesn't work out...dude, Steamboat seemingly has a lot going for it for you. It's very family friendly, as your family will dig staying in the 'Boat and be able to see you in town, and then have a fun time and normal life in some nice lodging. You could go the Turtle route and have fun with pacers, and also racing against the top Hares as well as top Turtle...or go the Hare route and mix it up with some stout Master's for a shot at $$$. Plus, you'd get to race Pikes, and it seems like you like to hit high mileage in September. Cheers either way!
Mike - you always bring an intelligent and reasoned voice to these conversations. Damn you.
DeleteCouple of thoughts - I am not chasing Leadville because of the Marshall type double. What I am doing is not even comparable to that nuttiness he did. I am doing Leadville because I have the opportunity to do it while also doing PIkes. I want to do Pikes ... and I want to do Leadville. Simple as that.
And if Leadville does not work out, no sweat. I might do something else. Could be Steamboat. Could be one of the other ones in the Rocky Mountain area but a bit further away. Or none. Frankly part of the allure of Leadville to me is the history and its local nature. Drive home that next day and all.
Until recently 1000 bucks for a race was not considered an excessive fee for a race going through public lands - ala Badwater.
I am completely okay with people expressing their dissatisfaction about the cost of the race going up, or a degradation of service with the same cost. Heck I was pissed when the five dollar foot long went to six bucks.
But what really talks in these cases is where people put there money. We can all bitch about how Pb might be making a few more bucks, but my guess is it would still fill just fine - meaning people are on whole okay with this.
There is no monopoly on these sort of races, and even ones in the heart of the Rockies. There even appears to be another one popping up in Fairplay this summer.
I get the bitchin ... Bolder Boulder is THE most competitive road 10k in the state. I don't think that makes it worth the 60 bucks they want to charge you for it though (cost per mile would make most 100 milers cost a 1000 bucks actually). So, I don;t do it anymore. I gripe about it though. But I realize I am a free consumer to take my $$$ where I want.
I also don't get how many complained about the race size, and now are irked that there is a lottery to control it to some size (although to what number is not clear). And that they want a fair system to get in, but as long as it is fair to their group (vets versus newbees, etc).
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteGood stuff GZ.
DeleteAt best, I'm just wordy and waffle between how frustrating the internet arguments are, and contributing to them.
Who knew how much such silliness would come in handy in being patient with a newborn?!
Yeah I get your desire to do both races -- and think you still can, with a good shot in the lottery. But you also want to *race* both. I think you had some good advice (it took me a few weeks to catch up) about how you'd have to hold back on one or both, considerably. I think there are some other folks that had wanted to sign up for both because of a growing trend of trying to outdo each other in 'badassness' in doing less, in more races -- a trend that seems to be growing, to me. Just an observation though.
One thing that is interesting to me is that people are throwing in the towel with plans bc of the lottery, but I think we were on schedule for a disastrously rapid race fill-up in minutes, with just as much wailing and gnashing teeth. I very much agree that it was time for a lottery.
If I sound like bitching (you could be right), my aim is more for bemused, GOM griping. I think the comprehensive picture of LT's qualifying races, as well as the run camp, CEO challenge, pre-selling IV's (before scuttled), etc. have always tipped their hand to the type of gym culture they cater to, more akin to Ironman and a more affluent group to which they can up-sell.
The criticism, then, is about the culture: first, in comparison to what Leadville seemingly used to be; and second, in comparison to what it could be. We're a social species, we create our own culture. Some of those go against what I and others value in running particularly, just like a $1k Badwater or the cost and qualifying structure of Ironman is particularly and at times prohibitively expensive. I'm all for anything that makes running more affordable, and running events are historically based on achievement, guts and determination, rather than $. So yeah, I'll call out cases that go against that. Sufficiently selling out, as a subsegment of demand, doesn't necessarily mean social righteousness. I wouldn't by any means stop their freedom to market their product...but we have an equal freedom to discuss it critically. This year, that led to a much-improved race that was by most accounts friendlier to runners, the environment, and the town.
Much better to discuss than shrug our shoulders and let the 'market' take care of it (it still would have sold out with 1k runners and no changes). While also, like you said, taking our $$$ elsewhere.
Or, even better, taking our $ or $$ elsewhere!
Cheers, GZ!
Mike - I did not mean to imply you were bitching. If you were, I appreciate it because you also define some level of proposed solution along the way in what I read as a rationale voice.
DeleteYeah, cultures change. It happens. Not just in racing but in the world. Kids grow up. Small businesses get acquired by big business and suddenly you can't bring your dog to work or show up in flip flops anymore. What got you hear won't get you there and all that jazz.
I thought LF looking to presell IVs was both stupid and brilliant at the same time. Stupid because the market reaction was fairly predictable, but brilliant because it was a way you could make a buck. You see this sort of thing at road marathons with folks buying a premiere access package (cleaner bathrooms, shorter lines, etc). Really not much different than what you get when you decide to buy a first class ticket on a plane or a special access package at a park or even a faster shipping rate. Heck, I think we all know a story of someone slipping the guy at the door a Benjamin to get to the head of the line (never did it, but I know of it).
We want our races to be of such and such culture - but this sort of economy is our culture.
I don't see a good reason why Leadville should not go to a lottery. The whole idea of a computer race to enter a running race seems rather silly to me....
ReplyDeleteNick - I agree. I don't understand how some folks want to cap the race to assure a degree of effectiveness (as well as other factors like environmental impact, etc), but then don't want a lottery when they see how popular the race is.
DeleteWyatt has been fairly outspoken about how he things there should be preference in the lottery to former racers. I realize that I come from a perspective of not being a former racer there. I think that route then sets you up to be looking at various lottery pools. I am not a fan of that, simply because I am not sure how that is more fair - and potentially it sets you up to have a pool of "haves" over "have nots" over time. Meh.
I'd personally have no beef if Leadville had a qualifier requirement but that seems to be buck the historical trend that some seem to want to embrace: any moron that wants to sign up for this stuff can go ahead and do it (supposedly some sort of quote by Ken on that).
I'd guess I have to look at Pikes as the closest thing I can relate to on this. They have qualifiers that are appropriate (as well as cutoffs). What if they went lottery? Okay, I'd hope to still get in via age group placing, but if I didn't and I didn't make it in - I might be disappointed but I'd not be "heart broken."