Justin posted a burro preview over at RunColo. Justin also put a post regarding our training up at Bill’s place earlier this week.
Slept in this AM. Needed it.
Been watching the splits from BTMR go up, and then doing some historical comparisons. Interesting stuff, just to see how folks took it out, and then how that set up for the rest of their race. I admit, I am looking for the scenario where the W’s are taken more conservatively and that sets up for a better later race (or vice versa).
Anyway, this gets me thinking a bit about various things with Pikes. I have been purposely not thinking about Pikes because I have come to believe that my thinking about it is not useful, and might actually be a bad thing.
In any case …
Based on the result from this weekend , it would be easy for me to say I am as fit as I was four years ago.
But … In the first two years I ran the BTMR, I went through the early Ws hard and then ended up walking portions later. In other words, I’d run faster, and then slower.
This past weekend I ran the whole race (and that is not new – I have done that before but this is a comparison). So maybe I am not as fast as I was a handful of years ago, but I can just hold a more consistent effort. So, for sure, I am definitely running differently even though the results are nearly the same.
And, it is easy for me to think a time here at BTMR translates into some sort of time at Pikes, and then get all worked up about that. There is certainly some correlation between times and the races, but I recognize that BTMR is very much a different race than Pikes. When you get to Barr Camp in the ascent, you are really JUST starting to race. And then when you get to tree line (A frame), little errors can add up to handfuls of minutes. BTMR, a challenge for sure, but I want to be careful to not be lulled into a false sense of security (or fitness) based on these results.
It comes down to this – I like to think that while I may not be as fast as I was in 06, I raced rather stupidly – and actually did not run my potential then. While I may be dealing with
So in any case, the race comes down to less about what I have done about training through this point, and what I do with the muscle above my neck.
Yeah you tell a story like a broken record and
You tell a story like a broken record and
I tell a story like a broken record but
Still I ain't jealous of the fellas like you, like anyway
RCPM at the Hideway on July 30.
PM – 10 miles then 15 x 1 minute hill strides. Gentle hill (6 %) but hard. 15 miles total.
A pic of some of the post BTMR fun:
I think quite a bit about how much is too much through the Ws and the short, but not-to-be-underestimated climb out of No Name. Unfortunately, I don't get down to Pikes enough to test out different strategies. So, I really struggle as I think about how to plan to pace myself up to Barr. I plan to do a fair bit of speed-hiking on some stretches between Barr and A-Frame. If I've managed myself right, I will run most everything, save for some of the rocky sections,from A-Frame to the Golden Stairs.
ReplyDeleteOn the training run a couple weeks back, I used the HR monitor and kept the HR in the 160-165 range. Still felt good over the last three miles. Maybe that's a way to keep it together.
Rambling.
Pretty simple. Get the hay in the barn.
ReplyDeleteThen ration said hay intelligently during the fight.
You're right not to think, I think.
Keep doing what you're doing.
That burro stuff has me shaking my head; you and Justin are definitely braver I am. Running down a road with a cantankerous animal on a rope? Yeah.
ReplyDeleteI didn't even get the phrase "Burro Days" until last summer when I happened to to pass through Fairplay at the right time, and realized the historical connection with mining.
As a non-racing recreational runner, I have to say the Barr trail Ws are a trap. They are hot as hell if you start too late in the morning, and can sap your energy in just the first couple of miles. Frankly I've just been hiking them and saving my running energy for the cooler, more scenic stuff up higher.
Nice run at BMTR. Like I commented to Nick C, you guys run that whole race in *less time* than it takes me just to get up to the Camp.
Regarding HR, I must be slacking due to my aversion to pain. The only mountain run I've recorded was La Plata Pk, and I never went over 148. That's good and bad: good, because my body seems to handle it, but bad, because I'm not really putting in the effort :)
Jim - I actually find the switchbacks and that section you mention past No Name to be a new challenge that I have to also be cognizant of. I find that when I get to the top of the Ws, there is a little tendency to be "okay, done with that" but Manitou Mtn still rages on. And that climb out of No Name is damn hard (although there is a gift of the flatter stuff above that).
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what HR ought to be up high (above tree line). I mean, I guess ideally you'd still be cranking at LT, but I think that most end up at a lower HR just because they have tapped the power output of their muscles. I have also wondered if the central governor thing comes into play up there - where the brain shuts shit down to survive.
Matt - thanks.
Mike-H ... keep in mind your max might be something different than the so called typical curve. A sub 150 for a guy with a max of 190 is probably pretty different than a sub 150 for a guy with a max of 165.
Good stuff. For me personally, the head is the toughest thing to train. If I run fast splits, I have a tendency to scale back and rest on my laurels so to speak, thinking a fast time is in the bag, though I might in fact be losing time. If I initially run crappy splits, I might get discouraged think I might be going crappy, but the conservative start can often yield dividends later on.
ReplyDeleteIf I don't pay attention to splits, I just don't know either way and it is one less thing to think about. I have run Pikes a few times without a watch. In 2006 when I ran my PR, I had no idea where I was at until I saw the clock and feel/felt that had I known, I could have pushed harder at the end to get in a little quicker (or I might have pushed too hard earlier and blown it all, finishing slower?).
I am heading to Pikes again tomorrow, debating which strategy to employ. Would love to have a faster runner who knows the route well to push/pace/motivate me up the mountain (any takers???). I think I will just let my legs/mind/body dictate my approach.
Occasionally, I consider the Maria Portilla 2007 method above A-Frame.
FYI, you're actually on Rocky Mountain during the W's, not Mt. Manitou.
ReplyDeleteNot saying this is good for training, but I always thought it'd be interesting and I'd do it!
ReplyDeleteThe last miles are tough, very tough and I've had some 3-2-1's in the past that I was very pleased with, but was never able to do that well in the actual PPA race above A-Frame. I'm sure the difference between what I can do in a 3-2-1 trainer is very different from the race because of the 2 plus hours of climbing I've already done. So, how about a training run where you go as easy as possible from Manitou to A-Frame, casual chatting type easy, then run the last 3 miles to the summit at race effort and see what your time is for just the last 3 miles compared to your best race split in the past?
Good idea Rick.
ReplyDeleteI actually have no intention of getting down there before race day.
I noticed in 9th place was Logan Wealing... (former Indiana boy..) I've raced against him and his brother Seth many times back in the day around the Lafayette area. I used to hand Logan his lunch, but I could never beat Seth. I believe Seth is an Xterra pro now who's based somewhere in Colorado...
ReplyDeleteRick - you got me thinking so I checked my times over the years up from the A frame. It appears that I run the last three miles in 55-57 ... except 06 where I blazed 47.
ReplyDeleteMy thinking on that training run comes from - "anybody" can run to A-Frame. It's A-F to SUMMIT that not "anybody" can do.
ReplyDeleteYou already know how you SHOULD run from START to A-F.
This training run will give you an idea of what you're capable of A-F to SUMMIT if you've run START to A-F properly. Of course, you should run faster on the training day because of getting to A-F with the least amout of effort as possible, but I think this will give a more accurate idea of capability than a 3-2-1.
47 minutes is smokin'!!
Rick - I have had as much as a five minute variance in the last mile (16 minutes to 21 minutes). That is totally an indicator as to how cooked someone can be up there, mentally and physically.
ReplyDeleteI last did the the 3-2-1 workout in 08 and did the 3 in 45:19. See: http://georgezack.blogspot.com/2008/07/sunday-070608-pikes-recon.html
In any case, I agree with your point, and it is one that MC has made - the real race starts at A frame. I have made it to the A frame (very) generally in about 2 hours. What happens after that determines a +/- 10 minute difference. Of course, what you did before that determines if you can make that difference!
I am not rushing down to Pikes simply because it seems a bit nutty to me to drive 200 miles RT to run 12-26 miles for practice. I have done it and understand why folks do it - it just does not work for me right now.
Ward - the Wealing bros seem pretty fast!