Monday, May 7, 2012

I am a cheapskate, movements and early consideration of the Bondis

I am a bit skeptical of nearly any “movement” in running, other than the movement of running.  Folks who claim with particularly religious fervor that drinking this, eating that, wearing this or not wearing that is the key to everyone’s running success come across as myopic in their view to me. 

For me, the movement is movement itself.  Get up and move.  Do something you enjoy.   Move more.  Move faster.  Move longer.  Move longer AND faster.   If you start with that, then the rest sorts itself out.  You will figure out if it is running for you or if it is square dancing.  If it is running you will figure out if you like roads or trails or the track.  You will figure out if you like no shoes and eating chia seeds or if you want to wear clown shoes and drink beer while on the run.  Or whatever. 

All that stuff is fine tuning your journey.  We got a bigger problem in this country with folks NOT moving.  But they probably don’t read this anyway.

So that said, it is obvious as to why I have been skeptical of the Hoka movement.  When the Hokas came out, I was less put off by their look (ridiculous) and more disinterested because of their price.  170 bucks?  No thanks.  That is 3 pairs of shoes, maybe four and at least two.   And then of course, the movement folks made me only dig in more.  Tell me I got to try something and I am less and less likely to do it.  For this very reason, I have yet to read Born to Run.  Stupid I know.

But then there were some folks who I trusted or knew via the blogosphere who tried them out and were pretty sold on them.  Dave M as a local and highly respected competitor.  Simon G and Karl M next.  And I read a review by Marshall U.  But Jeff V is a guy who I trust a lot and he spoke very highly of the shoes (in a balanced way of course).

Still 170 bones.  Ack.  I sheepishly put in a resume for their ambassador program and was both relieved and disappointed that I did not get it.  Really, I am not deserving of any sort of sponsorship given my lack of racing plans.  I wanted a way to try the shoes out without shelling out all that cash. 

Enter the TalkUltra photo facebook contest.  I put up a photo that someone (who I cannot recall) took of me in the PPA 2008.  Anyone who did the 08 Ascent recalls the insanity of that day:  rain until tree line, sleet and snow with thunder and lightning above it.  Hundreds of runners turned around at the A Frame.  Hypothermic underdressed runners at the summit.  And in August.  Stuff we laugh at now, but was not funny that day.

I made the cut to the finalists by way of the the TalkUltra guys consideration.  I then put out the social media bat signal, and quickly got a couple of hundred votes – more than enough to secure a win and a pair of the Bondis.  170 bucks saved!

The Hokas arrived Friday night, and so now I have worn the shoes twice.  My wife and daughter gave me quite a bit of lip as to how silly they looked and wanted to know if I would start running with a bright red nose too.   So far, all I have done is a couple of easy road runs.  About all I can say is this:  they don’t suck.  For me, the biggest endorsement I have been able to give shoes is that they don’t hurt my feet. Seriously.  At least for the roads. 

I remember the first time I saw the Crosslites by Sportiva and I thought the soles on those things were awesome.  So I got a pair (won in a race … can’t spend the big bux).  And yeah, while they had the best outsole ever for trails, their heel counter was so tight that I was nearly singing with the Jackson 5.  They hurt.  I can’t really wear them for any sort of running so they have become the shoes I wear around the yard for green grass and lawn derby we dads play on the weekend.  I have yet to slip in the yard yet.

For what it is worth, despite being significantly larger looking than a regular road shoe – the Bondis feel the same in weight.  They don’t feel heavy at all.  They slip on pretty easy and are comfy.  Like I said:  they don’t hurt. 

The lacing is a bit too “shallow” on the neck collar, but not too bad.  What I mean by that is I like to be able to pull on the laces a bit and still have some room to crank on the laces even more if I want.  In other words, the two sides of the shoe have a lot of room before they start to get near each other over time.  This means that over the life of the shoe, they have room to stretch.  If they are close coming out of a box, you don’t have that room and at some point, you can’t really crank on the laces.

I need to get them on a trail and see if they work there.  I am a bit concerned about rolling an ankle in them because that will incur a multiple story fall to the ground.  

Apparently they do have a low heel lift but I didn’t notice that.  And I don’t think I notice when shoes do either.

I guess I am assessing if these are a shoe I would wear in a race like Pikes (not sure if I will do that anyway).  I am certainly not sure about that as I have gone with road flats there fairly consistently. 

And ultimately if I would feel shelling out 170 bucks is worth it.

10 comments:

  1. I hear you about digging in about certain things. I'm not even on Facebook...even though, apparently, I 'have to' be. Dug in up to my neck on that one. Maybe eyeballs by now.

    Interesting about the Hokas, will be interesting to see how you like them as you wear them more. As for Crosslites, you'd probably like the 2.0's better, I find them roomier and comfier. (You have to try them!!!! ha ha)

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  3. I feel the same way nearly exactly. I wear Nike Vomeros, which are also neutral cushioned shoes. I have tried more than a few times to even try other neutral cushioned shoes with terrible results. So to spend $170 with the risk that they hurt my feet or don't feel right...can't do it. In theory I should love them. But damn. Road Runner Sports runs specials and I can buy 2 and 3 pairs at a time for $60-$70 bucks...and I can return them if they don't fit. I've run Pikes Peak in them, San Juan Solstice, etc. I'm a cheap bastard I suppose. Or maybe stubborn. Or maybe boring.

    If anybody ever sold them and offered a small return window I would definitely try them.

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  4. Yeah, they are a lot of cash--big mental hurdle. However, it seems like they last forever...
    Get those things on some trails and let em rip! That is really where they come to life. Especially the downhills.
    And fwiw, a lot of places have pretty good return policies. Backcountry comes to mind...

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  5. Nothing wrong with free, no matter how you get them. Unless you steal them, but that's a different blog post :). Probably the main reason I haven't bought the Hokas are because of their insane price, but I would love to give them a try on the trail, since the bottom of my feet always hurt. Looking forward to seeing how you like them there.

    btw, I had Born to Run sitting on my nightstand for a year and a half (a gift to us xc coaches from McDougall....the head coach knows the guy) before I read it. When I did, finally, it literally changed my life and honest to god think it is what got me over the hurdle with my PF and AT issues.

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  6. You forgot to mention me as a Hoka homer! I'm on my sixth pair and love them. I do think the Bondis are high profile enough to create some issues with rolling an ankle on a rocky trail. Be careful on the trail. When I go to technical terrain I still break out my Salomons. On smooth trail and, of course, roads the Bondis work great. Anway, they are very misunderstood. As you suggested, yes, they don't have much heel lift and are quite neutral. They are also surprisingly light. The uppers are fairly "minimal." People who say Hokas are tanks have obviously never worn them.

    FWIW, I think Marshall's endorsement probably made people's day at Hoka. For him to jump on the bandwagon is a big deal.

    Wyatt

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  7. I think rolling an ankle is my major hold up on trying a pair of these (given my recent history of horking up my ankles), you'll have to give us some feedback once you've got a few hundred miles on them. 170 bucks is quite the investment on a pair of shoes even if the reviews say they will last longer than a "conventional" running shoe.

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  8. I wore the hokas (mafates) a lot last year in longer races. They served the purpose. I've found them (at least the old versions) to be made of pretty cheap material. The cushion foam, though plush early on, breaks down quickly and you're left with a sort of dead, thick, sponge under your feet. Cushion, for me, means not only at impact but the energy return after impact. That's where the hokas fail. You can crush them on descents but they just feel like sponge-soled clogs for faster level running. And, God forbid, if you get them wet (Hardrock), the EVA soaks up the water and the shoes literally weigh over 2 lbs each (and never drain - my Bondis make squishy noises for THREE weeks after a rain run).

    I'm so thankful I tried the C-Lite 2.0s. I have NEVER worn a shoe that leaves my feet in such good shape after long races (feet are perfect after Miwok Saturday). They are light, drain water and dry well, have ample cushioning (the good kind), and great traction.

    Oh, and you ain't missing much by skipping BTR book.

    -grumpy old man has left the building.

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    1. Tim: I've never worn Mafates (only Bondis). I do know that my feet got hammered on the Hope Pass inbound descent last year. I quickly realized--at least for me--that Hokas are great for gentle descents but not long mountain descents with rocks, etc. I haven't had the show break-down issues you describe, but we're all an experiment of one, right?

      Wyatt

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  9. John Prater is another guy who is local and heavily endorsed them (he wore them on his 10 laps of Green).

    For what it is worth, did some down hill yesterday and they certainly did feel quite cush. To your point Tim, rolling a bit on the roads felt ... weird.

    Next up, a shoe that changes on the fly based on the conditions of the ground you are running on. Hokas for the downhill, but then turn into spikes on the track.

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